Very easy method to start a new planted tank without any algae!(really)

[plantbrain]

I've been toying with a few ideas that are I suppose radical to most, but not really when you think about it.

This method allows you to set the tank up flawlessly in the start up phase which is arguably the hardest and toughest phase of planted tank care.

You can grow in many species of plants such as HC, or gloss or most any nay pesky foreground plant without any water other than enough to soak the sediments well for 4-8 weeks first then after it's well grown in, add water and fish. You simply cover the tank with a glass lid or plastic like a terrarium, there's plenty of water in the sediment.

By not adding the water, you can grow the plants flawlessly, no algae, no water changes every 2 to 4 days etc, no NH4, no fish uprooting things etc. The tank is also completely cycled buy the time you add the water to fill things up.

This is the Easiest method to start up a tank without dosing, water changes, any algae, completely cycled tank etc.

The first 2 months are the toughest and this avoids it all.

Just cover the tank, add light and sediment(ADA AS works great BTW and cost about the same most sediments, you can mist the plants if you use flourite black etc with a NPK and trace solution 2x a week otherwise)

You can add the taller stem plants after you fill the tank up and/or other plants that ADAPT FAST.

Pretty darn easy.

I made a nice rug of HC this way using nothing more than a 1" layer of ADA aqua soil, filled the water to about 7/8" depth, added more water about once every 1-2 weeks to keep it moist and after 4 weeks, the tank is entirely grown in.

No dosing, no water changes, no CO2 issues, no uprooting, no nothing. Easy as it gets.

Bacteria will cycle after about 3 weeks or so, about the time frame the rug grows in using the ADA AS. So the NH4 is now been converted to NO3 and has plenty of bacteria to keep it low.

Some will say they wanna add their fish right away, then can do the old way if they want to, but this method makes life much easier and a little patience can make the tank look very nice with virtually no work.

Not many trade offs here.
And the success rate ought to be near 100% without any issues with algae, growth etc.

I do not think there are any other methods that can come even remotely close to that for the general plant hobbyist.

Crypts have long been grown as well as swords, Anubias, hair grass, Gloss, Dwarf clover, Utricularia grammifolia, as matter of fact, most of the plants that Tropica carries are emergent grown.............

I'd wait to add most stem plants later as you add the water. Then a week later, add shrimps, algae eaters and another week, the main fish.

If you dose well, do the water changes etc, good tending of the CO2.......the system should start off and stay looking good from then on.

I think this method can make many folk's life far easier and less labor and far better results than the "water in the tank methods" to start a new tank up.

I've grown Crypts for many many years this way, but given the issues, taking the next step with the start phase of the tanks that submersed seems pretty reasonable.

Don't you think so?
Many want a nice rug of various foreground plants and this is dang easy way to get a massive rug pre rooted.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Volenti]

You sir are a god among plant geeks, what a top idea, it's amazing how something seems so simple and obvious only after someone else thinks of it.

How will this go in heavily landscaped setups with higher layers ect, do the higher level plateau's dry out or is the high humidity enough?

[Squawkbert]

Excellent idea! The only potential faults I see are lack of patience among new hobbyists, and (maybe), issues that arise as a result of wanting to have a significant slope in the substrate.

This method will look a lot better than putting down little tiles of foreground plants. Maybe you could even have some Cories & a lawn...

[plantbrain]

You sir are a god among plant geeks, what a top idea, it's amazing how something seems so simple and obvious only after someone else thinks of it.

How will this go in heavily landscaped setups with higher layers ect, do the higher level plateau's dry out or is the high humidity enough?

Well, I had the same question and after testing, yes, works fine, the soil needs to very moist/humid, not necessarily saturated in water.

So the answer: yes, it works well too.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[plantbrain]

Excellent idea! The only potential faults I see are lack of patience among new hobbyists, and (maybe), issues that arise as a result of wanting to have a significant slope in the substrate.

This method will look a lot better than putting down little tiles of foreground plants. Maybe you could even have some Cories & a lawn...

Well, the slope issue is non existent.
I tried that and it works very well.

As far as patience........well, there;'s no work, it takes the same time for the weeds to fill in anyway.

So no time is really gained and the plants are far cleaner than any other method.

The only patience issue is really the adding of the fish.
Which is an issue no matter how you deal with for newbies.

Still, if you add the cycled time frame and the grown in issue, it's a pretty good deal.

The work load is pretty much= 0 for algae free nice thick lawns and most aquatic plants.

Since most are amphibious anyway..............

May as well use that to our advantage rather than doing things to old way.
I suspect this is the "reinvention of the wheel" personally...........

Just mentioning it and the trade off win-wins might be "new".
Still, for all the high tech mumbo, banter on line about how to do something best etc, a little common sense goes a lot further than all the testing techy stuff out there.

I'm more interested in reducing work and getting something out of the work that I do for all the testing, thinking and tech stuff.

Often times, that ends up being more work so it's nice to find things that reduce the work down so well and is pretty much fool proof.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[SQUEAK]

:sim: Tom,

In the past I've run into some issues with changing plants from emersed to submersed - that is, temporary die-off of leaves (changes in structure?), etc. Have you experienced this with the tank that you are working on? I may need to set up a temporary 10 gallon, so I very well may want to use this strategy.

[Nolapete]

I like the idea and would think the plants would be sturdier since they aren't being supported by the water during growth.

[Dread]

I'm having trouble understanding it how it was explained. Can anyone that understood it confirm if this is close: You're basically growing the plants in wet substrate, just like you would for emmergent growth? Simliar to http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g210/dtb3x3x3/ferrerorocheemmersed002.jpg? Just covering the tank so humidity is locked in, and growing it as you would "old school" and then filling it up with water when the carpet is grown in?

[Quartermain]

Sounds like that's exactly what he meant, Dread.

[plantbrain]

A bit less water, just enough to saturate the sediment, not immerse the crown of the plants etc.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[fishorama]

So, did I miss the light level? That's my usual downfall with some plants, so far...

[Dwarf Puffers]

I'll have to try that some time, maybe with a new tank if I find one in a bit. So, you just take some sand (or other fine substrate) that has some nourrishment in it (used sand? lol), plant the plants, and fill the tank until the water level is almost/just about at the substrate level, cover tightly, and wait? If so, gj on the discovery, you might aswell start your own nurcery, lol

[jpd1821]

If only I would have seen this 2 months ago, well I know what I'm doing next time.

[Slappy*McFish]

It seems so straight forward and obvious, I feel like an idiot for not thinking of it earlier. Thanks Tom.

[plantbrain]

So, did I miss the light level? That's my usual downfall with some plants, so far...

Well, it's been fine no matter what I used, from a cheap shop light to the sun(PARTIAL SHADE ETC).

Regards,
Tom Barr

[plantbrain]

It seems so straight forward and obvious, I feel like an idiot for not thinking of it earlier. Thanks Tom.

I think many of us all feel that way.
The idea of growing it emersed or doing a terrarium is not new at all...........however, going from terrarium back to submersed culture is bridging the gap it seems.

Most aquarist would not think of it for some reason.
I started thinking that it should be easy and require no dosing nor algae issues, then, after rotting, add water.

It seems like ADa should have thought of this method as well.
After all, Amano tends to slightly fill the tank(saturating the ADA AS first) when planting a new tank anyway, so why fill the tank after?

Seems someone should have happened upon it.
It certainly will make life much easier for many wanting foreground plant rugs and Crypts etc.

I think depending on your skills as an aquarist, using CO2, dosing right etc, doing water changes cleaning filters etc etc when you do finally fill the tank will make a big difference as well.

Does not matter how well things grow in before you flood, the tank will still fail if you do not care for it.

Still, this makes filling it in first super easy and no cycling etc and replanting loose errant clumps or fish uprooting new plantings.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Quartermain]

Tom, do you encounter significant leaf loss, or die back of the emersed growth, once you fill the aquarium with certain species?

I know that in nature this is the normal cycle for many plants and an emersed period of growth actually leads to stronger and healthier submersed growth due to the way plants store and use starch as energy. Tropica has a blurb on their website on that very subject.

Just curious if you can share your experience with how various species responded once submersed and if any were particularly difficult to trim. Thanks!

[mellowvision]

great thread. I've been thinking about having a terraced vivarium setup with a really shallow pool in one area that is for growing higher light plants like HC, and the deeper end having fewer plants/lower light plants... wonder if it will work similarly.

[plantbrain]

Tom, do you encounter significant leaf loss, or die back of the emersed growth, once you fill the aquarium with certain species?

I know that in nature this is the normal cycle for many plants and an emersed period of growth actually leads to stronger and healthier submersed growth due to the way plants store and use starch as energy. Tropica has a blurb on their website on that very subject.

Just curious if you can share your experience with how various species responded once submersed and if any were particularly difficult to trim. Thanks!

No, not yet.
It's a new method I think but the issue with leaf loss also involved the skill of the hobbyist.

Many have troubles adding enough CO2 or nutrients in the beginning anyway, all this method does is add more established growth.

It's not going to magically solve some folk's issues.

It's just another stepping stone to make things easier.

Put another way: folks can louse up even the nicest set up with full lush growth all on their own, which has nothing to do with the method or type of growth that was there prior to adding under water. :idea: :wall:

Just keep that thought in mind when folks have issues.

If you can do the tank well, then you should have no issues otherwise for most species.

Some folks may not like the leaf color/shape changes etc, but most leaves should be fine.

The only difference is really gas exchange is slowed down.
So if you add plenty of CO2, Excel etc, the plants should be okay.

I cannot say for all 300 species of aquatic plants commonly kept, I have obviously not tried it on everything yet.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Robert H]

I know you are posting this in every forum, and I have read it several times and I just don't understand how this changes anything. Algae can gow on a wet rock, and certainly on wet "sedimant". All you need is moisture and light to grow algae. And how many plants can you grow in just a wet substrate? Anything other than a carpet plant? If all you want to do is grow carpet fast, you can do that in a shallow tray and then transplant the whole "carpet" into your aquarium. What is the advantage of what you are suggesting?

[phanmc]

Algae can grow on the wet substrate but it won't be able to grow on the leaves of the plant itself, which is a common complaint for growers of HC, dwarf hairgrass, lilaeopsis, e. tenellus, etc. There's also no need to worry about excess fertilizers causing more algae. I know someone who uses MiracleGro, something no one would use in a water filled tank.

A big advantage is no CO2 limitation, the CO2 concentration in the air is enough. So for the inexperienced CO2 user, this is a great way to get a lush lawn. All bets are off once they do fill the tank off course.

Transplanting the whole carpet doesn't sounds like more work. Why grow a carpet in one tank and move it over to another when you can grow it in one and leave it there? This method allows you to grow the foreground around your hardscape, rather than having you transplant around your hardscape.

[plantbrain]

I know you are posting this in every forum, and I have read it several times and I just don't understand how this changes anything. Algae can gow on a wet rock, and certainly on wet "sedimant". All you need is moisture and light to grow algae. And how many plants can you grow in just a wet substrate? Anything other than a carpet plant? If all you want to do is grow carpet fast, you can do that in a shallow tray and then transplant the whole "carpet" into your aquarium. What is the advantage of what you are suggesting?

Need I explain the rather obvious benefits?
You have enough common sense to figure this out.
So do other folks here and elsewhere.
Sorry, I've not had issues with algae on sediment.
Algae on leaves is far worse.
Blackouts, flooding, excel, alum, etc works dandy to kill it and it's only for a few weeks till the tank's flooded.

Regards,
Tom Barr