Just researching and Starting, HELLO!! I need advice...

[romaric]

Hello all! I've wanted a tank for about a year now and I have finally started to research and discover this amazing world.

My dream tank would be a 20 gallon, with lots of amazing, live plants, some driftwood and a few fish. I know ebough now that fishless cycle might be the way to go. I have a few questions. I've researched and have gone to petco and I'm a bit confused....

is 10 gl better than 20 for a starter?

Should I buy a package tank, like a Tetra, to start?
IS this ok?

The guy at the store said, "fill tank, get things working, turn heater off...after two days, get goldfish to do a fish cycle for 4 weeks" IS THIS RIGHT? I have not read anything about a GOLDFISH cycle, and everything I research seems to point to a fishless cycle.

This is what I'm learning. Get a 20 gl tank for a beginner. Set everything up. I CAN start with live plants. The Petco guys told me NOT TO. So...insert my plants, fill the tank and cycle through 4 weeks.

From what I've read and what the Petco guys tell me, the advice seems to vary. Please help!

I Really do not want to harm any fish, and everyone in this forum seems so well educated.

Can you please give some advice/tips? I just found the Forum today and want to do this right. I'm ready to go out ASAP and start my project.

So excited!!

Some dream tanks that I hope mine could turn into.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sampukko/106304164/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sixty9/212810373/

I know this is long way away and comes from YEARS of experience, but one day, I want to get there and these are just beautiful.

THANKS!

romaric.

[Phil22]

Hi and welcome to the site. My first advice would be to read the sticky thread at the top of this forum on cycling a freshwater tank. That should give you a good start. Please consider a fishless cycle, versus the goldfish route.

From a tank standpoint, most will tell you to go as large as you can afford/have space for. Not for bragging rights, but larger tanks are easier to maintain and more forgiving. If I get lazy, my 55 gallon can go 10 days without much of a nitrate spike...my 20 on the other hand can't go more than a week.

Try to decide what kind of fish you like and what fish are compatible. It may help you decide what size tank you will need. For example, some fish will do better in a 20 gallon long versus a 20 gallon high. Don't believe the minumum tank requirements posted at most pet chain stores. Check here first.

I tend to prefer buying equipment separately, versus a kit, but maybe that's just me.

There is a lot of info the members here can provide. I'd suggest taking it step by step.
Read the sticky on cycling, ask any questions.
Decide what kind of fish you like, ask us about the best stocking plan based on those fish.
Decide on a stocking plan, and ask us what size tank would be best, or how you might need to adjust the plan based on a size of tank you can afford/fit.
Then you can ask about filters, heaters, lighting, etc.

I can't give you any help on live plants, but plenty of folks here can.

By the way, local pet/fish stores, do offer advice on set up, stocking, etc. Keep in mind, most of these folks are out to sell you stuff. Check in here, before you start spending money.

[romaric]

Hi Phill22, thanks for replying so quickly! I've been here waiting, as I'm so eager to start!

I read the sticky about cycling, it's awesome. Thanks, I'll def. go the non fish route.

I think I'll start with a 20 gallon long.
I think maybe a kit is in order, as I'm just abeginner and it might be easier?

Though, I plan on REALLY getting into this, so maybe starting out with seperate bits and pieces is better? I have patience and some money put aside for this project, so any other advice on sets vs. seprate items would be great.

If I do go with inividual items, any advice on products to buy, brand names for heaters, filters, etc. would be awesome.

As for fish, basically, I'd love to start with plant life first. I am found of the black mollys. But, basically, I'd love to start with a 20 long and some natuaral plant life and then get fish to move around that. I love all animals and any fish would be ok, really, as long as they are happy :headbang2:

THANKS!

[Star_Rider]

you do realize that the planted tank is a whole other ballgame....right?

the light you get with most tanks will not be sufficient for most plants.

you will need approx 2 watts per gallon to grow some desirable plants.

the fixture you get will probably supply less than 1 wpg(watt per gallon)
if you set up the tank as a planted allow a few weeks to get established you will not see a cycle..the plants wil consume the ammonia(assuming the tank is atleast moderately planted,)
I have planted tanks and I like the way the plants help to stabilize the tanks.

[Phil22]

Ok, do you have a petsmart in your area? If so, you can go to petsmart online, look up the equipment you want, print off the online price, and take that into the petsmart..they'll honor the online price. Can generally save a few bucks. I don't know, maybe petco does this as well (?)

Try that with the tank kit, and compare to a separate tank, heater and filter (and whatever else comes with the kit). Keep in mind, that most here will recommend more filtration than something rated for up to 20 gallons. Given you are interested in a 20 long, you may want to consider two filters (rated for 20 gallon) versus one rated for 40, for example. It's great back up incase one goes bad (although, I've never been in a situation where I felt the fish were at risk over a bad filter). The point is, you can't have too much filtration. I'd probably recommend you look at AquaClear or Penguin hang on back filters. I have the Penguin 150 bio wheel hang on back for my 20. Again, seems to be working well.

Price a heater (submersible is recommended...I have a Visi-Therm Stealth 75 for my 20...it's rated for up to 25 gallons). Some might recommend going up one level to the Stealth 100 rated for 30 gallons..but so far my 75 is doing well.

You'll need to do some research/ask questions in the plant forum/section about lighting, substrate, fertilizing, CO systems etc. I have no experience here. They might even suggest another form of filtration as well.

I don't know what your budget is, but realize it adds up quickly. Don't forget about the price of plants, higher lighting requirement, decor, the price of fish, food, water conditioner, a gravel vac, liquid test kit (API is recommended - strip test kits are not recommended) a net, etc.

My son's 55 turned out to be about 30% more than I budgeted...poor research on my part (plus he just had to have the expensive light house and wrecked ship!).

You're asking all the right questions...keep asking, we'll be here.

[romaric]

Hi Star Rider

yeah, I'm starting to figure out that a planted tank is more work, a totally different responsibility.

But I'm up for it!

Since you have planted tanks, any simple advice? Should I go for individual items?

Looks like need a 40 watt light. cool, I can get that.

Any plants that are easier to maintain at the start?

Thank you!

[silentskream]

if you're going to go for a planted tank i would DEFINITELY get things separately. if you buy a kit you'd have to purchase another light set anyway, and that's usually the most expensive thing, so you might as well just get it all separately.
do a google search for "silent cycle." you may still want to go with a fishless cycle, but i think it would be a good read so you can at least understand how it works.

the easiest plant i've ever come across is a java fern. i took my plant out if the dirt and into a water filled bucket in a closet for 2 weeks, then brought it out and the thing was still bright and green and perfectly healthy!

good luck!

[romaric]

Phil, silentskream, thank you.

I found a great local store nearby. NOT a petco, and I'm going to hop in there and ask qustions too. Making notes from all your comments and they are VERY useful, thank you.
Phil, good idea and price comparison...and Silent, you might be right...if I'm going to change the lighting system ANYWAY, I might just start with that, instead of a kit. Also, thanks for the liquid test kit advice. I will go with this too. Your son has a 55 gl tank! awesome!!

I have put money aside for this for a long time, so I'm god to go.

Also, thank you for the 'java fern". I'll look into that. I found this site called ADA. Pretty amazing stuff there.

Another question...is the generic pebbles they sell in bags ok, or should I try to go with sand, gravel, more "real life" types of soil and rocks.

I def. want driftwood in there. IS sand or grave better for this and for plants??

Basically, I'm taking notes from you guys and walking into this new store and saying "well, this is what my friends do, and they're wicked talented at it"!!!!

:grinyes:

I'll let ya know how it goes. Just waiting for lunch to arrive then I'm off to the store.

thanks guys!

benny.

ps...maybe pick up a book or two while I'm there?

[Star_Rider]

romaric, planted tanks are not difficult if you get some basic understanding.
if you want to set up a tank with live plants what will help with your cycle..you should consider buying items seperately.
the light may be more expesnive than the tank..but then tere are DIY set up for most.
I wouls suggest 2 wpg for a start..this will accomodate many of the plants you will want to grow.
wpg is not the best measure of light but it's easy to use as a guideline.
there are low light plants but they grow slowly and their nutrient up take is slower.

@2wpg you won't have to have CO2 but you can DIY it or since the tank is relatively small you can get one of the hagen systems very easy to use (can use home formula)
co2 is beneficial and there has been much success with co2 in med-low light.



http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3747+8981&pcatid=8981


substrate can be gravel. I prefer flourite or ecocomplete.

I fond that with these substrates the plant are pretty easy to anchor.

plants ..
low light:
anubias
java fern,
java moss
some cryptocoryne.
plants at 2 wpg opens the list up more

swords
anacharis(elodea)
wisteria
watersprite
cabomba
frill
some of these are nutrient sponges and feed from the water column,
swords are root feeders and IMO benefit with a good substrate but you can use plant tabs.
if you want to learn more on planted tanks there are plenty of links and there is aplanted tank forum here.

[Phil22]

Hope your lunch shopping goes well. Someone will come on and give you some advice on the substrate.
I bought a few books at my local fish store. Frankly, I think you're better off reading through this forum. I'd put this forum up against any of the books I've read.
Also, search through the plant section here. Many have asked in the past about good beginner plants, substrate to use, etc.
There are also a number of threads about soaking driftwood so it doesn't leach tannins, etc. Trust me, it's all here.
Well, regarding my son, it kept him from the daily requests for a puppy. I've got nothing against dogs, but I'd much rather help with water changes, than walk a dog in the snow...if you know what I mean.

[romaric]

Star Rider, thank you. That link is awesome, I'm getting so excited at all this!! It's all so delicate and scientific and well balanced. The idea of trying to duplicate the natural world is an awesome challenge!

Thanks for the substrate and plant recs. I'll look into all of them, and most importanly take a good few hours in our plant section forum here.

thanks again! I'll let ya know what I end up with! My list is growing!

[romaric]

Hi Phil

I agree with you on the book front. As I'm looking through this site, I'm beginning to understand that vast range of knowledge here. Awesome.
Spending some time in the plant section now...

And yes...dogs can be quite the pet! If any of you have pics of your tanks, I'd love to see.

From what I'm understanding, I'm going with individual items, some plants suggested by Star Rider, and I love that CO2 system he linked.

Hopefully can start buying things today.
Any advice on thermometers?

Thanks everyone, you gusy rock!! :headbang2:

[romaric]

Sorry, I ment heaters!!! hehe what a beginner....

[Star_Rider]

check out this filter
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3579+16742&pcatid=16742

if you eliminate the spray bar(bad for co2) you have a mini cannister affordable enough to use 2..

hey..I wonder if this ..... on my 20 nano tank......:idea: and they are on sale!!

btw..if you hadn't noticed..I order from dr foster and smith fairly regularly..they have a good deal on shipping especially when I order salt for my marine tanks by the buckets...LOL

and they have descent prices too.

[Phil22]

I prefer the cheap glass ones with a suction cup to the stick on strip ones. Others have the probe with digital read out. I think you're fine with a glass one. Just for convenience, I have two...I keep the extra one near the sink where I check temp before refilling the tank after a water change. Then as I refill, I keep an eye on the one in the tank to be sure. Just easier than pulling the one out of the tank each week. Ok, I'm lazy. And it's worth the extra couple bucks.
While I'm sure all glass ones are pretty accurate, someone here suggested checking the one you are about to buy, to be sure it is registering a temperature similar to what it feels like in the store. In other words, if it's showing 85 degrees in the store, and you know the store is probably more like 78...it may not be working well. Or, if they are all registering about the same temp, they are probably all working. I guess you could always ask an assistant what temp the store theremostat is set at.
Happy shopping...

[romaric]

whoah that filter is awesome and really cheap!!

So, if I use the CO2 dispenser, I should atke out the spray bar...cool cool.
What do you mean by "you have a mini cannister affordable enough to use 2.."

Would I have to buy TWO of these for a 20gl tank?

Yeah, I've been reseacrhing that site. Their stuff looks well designed and not too expensive.

man, this is so cool....how many tanks do you have???

[Phil22]

Sorry, you're replying faster than I can type...ha ha. I gave you some thoughts on thermometers anyway, above...
As far as heaters, I have the Visi Therm Stealth 75 in my 20. Some may suggest going up one level to the 100. I think I elaborated a little more in one of my previous posts.

[silentskream]

i strongly recommend eco complete over gravel for planted tanks. its really an incredible difference.

[Phil22]

Many here will recommend multiple filtration systems for a tank. With two, it's highly unlikely you will be left without a filter if it happens to fail at 11 p.m. It also allows you to have more bio filtration and you can also put different filter medium in each, if you wish.

Given, however, that you seem to be interested in a small community of fish, I think you'd be fine with one filter. You can always add another later.
I have a penguin 150 bio wheel on my 20. Seems to work fine.

Also, I believe you mentioned you liked mollies. I've found mollies do better in a slightly salty environment. I believe the live plant experts will tell you that plants don't like salt. So, I'm probably getting ahead of you a bit, but you may want to reconsider your choice of fish.

[romaric]

Thanks Phil, and everyone for helping.

Two seems like a good idea...you're right..the thought of one breaking at 11pm at night without a back-up..kinda scary...

The 150bio looks pretty good. Would I do the same things as the other filter Star Rider Suggested...take out the spray bar on that? Think I might go with two...I could always go with a large fish community!! That would be ok with me!! :grinyes: It won't get to busy for a 20 gl, right?

Thank you also for the Mollie advice. I think I will focus on plant life first, then find fish that will thrive in my environment I build!

Nice, I think I got a list going!!

CO2 : http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3747+8981&pcatid=8981

Filter, buying two. this:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3579+16742&pcatid=16742

or this:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3579+12320&pcatid=12320

Heater:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12060&Ntt=visi%20therm%20stealth%2075&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&pc=1&N=0&Nty=1

And substrate:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=9087&Ntt=eco%20complete&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=2004&Nty=1

awesome! Still looking around at that site for other options, but it's looking good!

What do you all think...good starter set up, so far, from those links??

FUN!

[Phil22]

Fun shopping, isn't it?
If you go with one penquin, I'd go with the 150 or 200. The larger 200 does allow for more filter medium options. I have no experience with the nano canister, but it looks pretty cool. I'd love to know how quiet they are...most of the larger canisters are darn quiet. The hang on back filters (like the penquin or aquaclear) are also quiet as long as you keep the water level high enough to reduce the waterfall like noise.
The canister may provide you with greater water output options (meaning how/where the water stream is directed into the tank) versus a hang on back filter, which essentially is going to push water across the top from back to front.
Given you're looking at a 20 long (not sure how tall they are), the stealth heater will likely need to go in horizontally (it's 10" long)...not a big deal, just a little less convenient to adjust and another cord running up the inside of the tank..but I still think it's your best choice.

[Star_Rider]

I like the idea of a cannister for filtration in planted tanks.

the cannisters can be set up to reduce the off gassing of CO2

(eliminate the spray bar and submerge the output..reduce surface turbulence...)
hobs splash alot but can be modified to reduce the splash with a deflector.as far as bio wheel..no advantage in a planted tank as you should remove the bio wheel.

if you do that stick with AC (aqua clear) if you want a HOB.

[Phil22]

When it comes to planted tanks, I would certainly defer to star_rider's advice.

[canucksfan1]

I just started a planted tank in my 20 long a couple days ago, i have a couple amazon swords that were in another one of my tanks that were dyeing, they are starting to do alot better now, i also have some Java Moss and Fern, and some Watersprite, i will probably slowly start adding more.

As far as setup goes i just have sand substrate, haven't been using any ferts yet, and don't have my C02 set-up right now, and the lights are just 2 compact flourescent 13 watt screw in lights. I used to have 4 but i had bad algae problems so i took 2 out for now we will see how well it does.

[romaric]

yeah, shopping is wicked fun. Thanks Phil, since this time I've been researchign filters ( and lights, so many choices!) Think I may go with a cannister, if star rider is getting some good results with it.

Star Rider, would you go with two of these?:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3579+16742&pcatid=16742

I like those a lot too, seem very cool and look neat. I do like how you can control the water output. That's cool.

Two of those seem like a good choice.

If Cannisters help with the off gassing, then I want to start with that :)

Looking into lamps now...any suggestions on where to start?

[Dwarf Puffers]

Just opened this post (well, took a few mins to read, lol) and I'll be watching it, excuse me if I don't have very much to say on the tech and parts for it, lol, I can get about 5% of it around here, so I don't know much. Flora and fauna are my specialty.

Btw, for plants; Java fern gets around 7" high minimum (mine's still growing, heh heh), so you'd probably have to plant it near the back. Plant the Moss on the driftwood (use fishing line to tie it on, remove when rooted), it looks nice.

Another plant suggestion I'd like to make are moss balls; My snails, cories, etc. love travelling over them, and they look nice too. You can try fragging them (frag=fragment, AKA cut in half and replant both halves) when they've been there for a while and seem healthy.

[Star_Rider]

hmm..I have some lace jave fern that doesn't seem to grow that high..;)
swords , depending on the species, can overtake a tank;)romaric..i don;t have one of those cannisters but in general cannisters are good for CO2 enriched;) tanks.

[romaric]

SR....should I consider two of those running at the same time for a 20gl?

[Mabowden]

Yes... Theres almost no such thing as too much filtration.

[Plecosterone]

I must congratulate you on the research you are doing BEFORE you set anything up. If more people would do this there would be a lot more people in this amazing hobby. You are getting all the right advice in here from people who have actually done the things they are telling you or have done wrong and now know better now (probably a little of both..lol). Keep researching before you buy and it will make things so much easier.

[Phil22]

romaric, here are a few random thoughts. Obvious, maybe, but sometimes overlooked.
Be sure to rinse everything well with tap water...no soap of any kind. You can use a mild bleach solution..like 1 tablespoon bleach per 5 gallons of water...but then rinse like crazy until you no longer smell any bleach. Frankly, unless it's used or from the lake or yard, I just rinse well with tap water.

Rinse the tank several times. Take the tank outside, put it on a flat surface and fill with water. Let it sit for a few hours and check for leaks. The chance of a leak on a new tank is very rare, but you need to rinse it anyway, and it gives you some peace of mind. You would hate to set the whole thing up and then find some manufacturer's flaw.

Go buy a 5 gallon bucket from Home Depot/Lowes/hardware and mark it for fish use only!. Use it for rinsing substrate, decorations, rocks, even a temporary fish holding tank if necessary in the future. You can also use it for water changes, if you're going the bucket route. Rinse it before use as well.

If you want to use rocks from your backyard or stone supply, first check them with a few drops of vinegar. If you see any fizzing, there's some mineral in the rock not suitable for the fish tank. If no fizzing, then scrub, and scrub (I have a brush for fish stuff only), then rinse and rinse. Do not boil rocks...a brief dip in hot water is fine...but boiling could cause some internal air pocket to explode. My wife would be very upset if I sent rock chips flying around her kitchen!

Get a power strip. It makes it easy to turn off the filters/heater, etc., when doing water changes. I only keep the lights in a separate plug, so I can see better when doing gravel vacs. You want to be sure to unplug the heater when doing water changes...they can malfunction if left on out of the water.

Do follow the manufacturers warning about leaving a drip loop on the cords (should water somehow run down the cord, it won't go directly into the outlet). I find it easiest to mount the power strip a foot or so up the wall or stand and let the cords loop from the floor.

If you decide to get an air pump for an air stone, be sure to purchase the cheap little anti siphon valve (should there be a pump failure, it keeps water from siphoning out of the tank through the air tubing, into your pump, and all over your floor).

Hope all is going well.

[romaric]

Phil!!

Thanks for checking in. I was out all day in manhattan enjoying the weather AND I went to 3 aqurium stores. Two in Chinatown and one in UES. Pretty amazing stuff. I had some more thoughts while on my walk, and it's cool, cause you actually covered some of the new question I had.

The one that was sticking out the most was the preperation of my driftwood and bigger type stones I put in my tank. Good advice on the scrubbing...is that to chip away unwanted bacteria on it? Dip in hot wter is cool, but I have read about boiling. If you say a few seconds in hot water is fine, then I will go with that :)

Does the same hold true for large pieces of driftwwod?
Can I dip those in hot water as well?

Thanks for your help, it's awesome. Let's recap!!

1. Rinsing the tank through and through and check for leaks. cool.

2. I'll go get a bucket today. For Aquarium use only!! I'll get a power strip there too.

3. Thanks for the rocks and driftwood tips. I'm on it!

4. drip cord, cool.

Everything seems in order! I have a really great list going from Fosters and Smith. I just have to get a good tank. I found one yesterday that I will get this week.

Last thing is really lighting and hood. I need help with what Type of lighting and hood I get for a planted tank. Star_Rider, any tips? I know even the height of the lighting effects the plants. I think I got the watts right, but any links to suggested brands for lights and hoods would be helpful.

Do I need to buy a gravel vac right away?

What ecxactly does an air pump do that filters don't? Can you explain, please. Do I need one right away or at all?

Some good news!! I found some fish I like! These include:

Black Tetra, Callistus Tetra, Albino red tail shark, black convict, mono, Guppies!!!!, Cardinal Tetra (So colorful and small!!) and Harlaquin Rasbora.

I'm ordering my supplies today from the site and getting my tank in a few days. I found a 20 gl, 24x12x16 for $37.

Thanks all for your help!!
I'll be blogging my project as I go along, with high res photos and very detailed oriented specs on product and set up time, etc.

wicked excited.

:D

[romaric]

One more thing, I think you all might enjoy this. I'm an Art Director/Graphic Designer by day and just designed this amazing projects for BBC. Not trying to get props here, but there is an awesome section starring a humpback whale. I think you might love it. Animal lovers in general will love the movie and site..browse around and check out the whale section. The underwater shots are so cool!

http://www.loveearth.com/uk/

:)

[Phil22]

The air pump and air stone is just for visual appeal (although the bubbles hitting the surface do help in 02 exchange), may not be good for a live plant tank though...you'll have to ask the plant folks about that one. I only mentioned it in case you were thinking of getting one.

I think some folks do boil their driftwood before putting in a tank to sanitize and remove tannins, but not sure if that applies to store bought drift wood or stuff they find in rivers/lakes. I'm sure you can do a search in these forums and find more info.

I've used rocks from my backyard. Didn't dip them in hot water, but did scrub and rinse them a number of times to remove any dirt, chemicals, etc., that might be on them. And tested with vinegar first.

I'm not sure I'd want to live in NY, but it sure is a great place to visit. Do you work for an ad agency there?

[Phil22]

By the way, here's a picture of my 20...fake plants and a number of rocks from the backyard. The tiki hut is my daughter's favorite decoration...so it stays.

[romaric]

NICE PHIL!! wow..looks awesome. hahah, I love the tiki hut. that water looks CLEAR and I love the rocks from the backyard. Nice work. Yep, I work at an ad agency here in nyc. Ordering my supplies from the site soon! Here's where I'm at:

http://thegalactica.com/explosions/aqua.jpg

Just need a tank, a stand and the lighting, then I can start to put this baby together.

Everyone feel ok with that list? Looking good?

:)

[msjinkzd]

i would definately boil your driftwood, this helps it to sink and also removes any debris or goo. Also check it for soft spots and use a wire brush or razor knife to remove them, otherwise they will deteriorate and foul your tank. If your driftwood is too large to fit entirely in a pot, do it one side at a time. I would not skip boiling it. I boil for about 15 minutes, but if you see alot of discoloration (tannins) you may want to repeat the boiling a couple of times. I like the tannin look in my tank so I typically just boil once. Also, depending on what kind of driftwood you get, you may need to weigh it down until it sinks, you can use large rocks or attach it to a piece of slate for this. As far as your fish selection, i believe monos are brackish and get quite large, convincts are breeding machines and you might be able to get away with a pair of them in your tank but would have a difficult time keeping anything with them as they get very aggressive while spawning. All the tetras, raspboras, or guppies would work though. I don't know about the red-tail shark. Hope this helps a little and good luck.

[Phil22]

I only asked because I've been in the agency business for 20 years or so. At JWT for most of my career, and then Campbell-Ewald in Detroit. I'm the dreaded account management guy...but I think that still beats the CFO/finance department!

[romaric]

HAH! COOL! Yep, I started at Deutsch, Then went to Chiat, both in Los Angeles. Organic here in New York, and now I'm at POKE.

Cool :) JWT does cool work.

[romaric]

ms. jinkzd, thanks, that does help. I think I will boil the driftwood and maybe just dip the rocks in hot water. Cool. Also, thanks for the fish advice. Think I'll prolly go with guppies and cardinal tetras.

If We're all good with my order, I'm gonna make the purchase!!

ww000! :D

[Phil22]

I didn't look it up, but that's the liquid test kit, right? List looks good! For a 20, you don't necessarily need to purchase a "Python" brand gravel vac/syphon for water changes. When you go to home depot, you may want to just pick up a 3' 1/2" or 1/4" section of tubing to syphon the tank. But you have time to decide on this...aa fishless cycle could take 4-6 weeks...and you don't need to do water changes while the cycle is maturing.

[romaric]

Hi all. Romaric here again. I have my order placed for all my equipment! Awesome. Just a quick question for Star_Rider. I'm getting my tank today.

Would a 20 gallon LONG be better for a planted tank than a 20 gallon HIGH?
My instincts tell me HIGH is better, but I love the widescreen view the LONG gives off.

What is your advice.

Also, I LOVE when people tanks do not have any black molding around the top of their tanks. Does anyone know how this works? Can I just carefully strip off the top and clean off the extra glue. I love the clean look of this style. Any suggestions?

Thanks gang.

Pics of my equipment and tank coming soon!

-romaric

[silentskream]

i would not recommend removing the black strips along the outside if the tank, you have to buy the tanks like that.


the 20 long would probably be better for the plants, because it's shallow so the light reaches down to the bottom more strongly.

[Phil22]

romaric, if you don't like the black strip you may want to consider an acrylic tank. But it will be quite a bit more $.

[romaric]

Thanks Phil...Yeah I guess I'm safer just leaving it how it is...seems sketchy to rip the plastic off.

I just love this look:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sworrall/321807208/

That light set up is sweet

[romaric]

I'm thinking this for lighting, Star_Rider, what do you think...WAY more watts than 2 per gl, but will this do?

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+13733&pcatid=13733

130 watts and 24'" long will fit the 20gl High perfectly.

thoughts?

[Dwarf Puffers]

Hey romaric, just going to give you some info on the list:

Black Skirt Tetra: Grows to 2-2.5", enjoys schools of 6+, nips. Do not place with angelfish, bettas, guppies, or other long finned fish.

Callistus Tetra: Haven't heard of this one, I'd skip it if you can't get a comfirmation on what it is, but someone here probably knows what it is.

RTS: Not recommended. Grows to 4.5-5" min, so it's already quite big for the tank. They also get to be some of the most agressive fish out there, and would murder any bottom-dwellers.

Convicts: These guys grow to 6", and are an extremely agressive cichlids, barely able to be crammed into a 30g. They'd rip apart almost any community fish I know of.

Mono: Another bad one. These get huge, and salt water (high end brackish is okay), need schools, and, really, should be kept in a very large tank (over 300g min).

Guppies: Perfect starting fish, the best out there. Tough as a nail and pretty, too. Recommended you get males only, they're prolific breeders and also known as the "Millions Fish". Females can bear young many times after seeing a male, even if he's gone. Females are larger, and have shorter fins and a lot less colour than males. Very cheap fish, sometimes 2$ or less. High end "show" guppies can get pricey, 20-25$ sometimes. Guppies reach 1.5" for males, 1" or so without the tail, and females 1.5-2".

Cardinals: Another great biginner, these fish should be kept in schools of 6-8 minimum, and usually swim in a tight swarm. Very colourful and pretty hardy. Get somewhere around 1-1.5", and are usually cheap.

Harlies: These rasboras I do not know a great deal about. I know they are pretty hardy, get around 1.5", and are common and cheap, and I guess that's all I really need to say, lol.

Some suggestions:

Lemon/Neon/Blk neon/Glowlight tetras: All of these very around the length of 1.5", and school like the Cardinals. Usually cheap.

Cories: Some of my favorite fish, peppered = 2-2.5", panda = < 2", bronze = 2.5-3", albino = 2-3" (depending on weather they're peppered or bronze). Always cheap (got mine at a sale in New Minas once for 3 or 4 for 12$, good deal) and can only hurt pellets and fish food.

Otos: Don't exceed 3 in a 20g, add when the tank is established. Good algae eaters that get 1.5-2" and look pretty cute too. Cheap.

[romaric]

Hi Dwarf Puffers, thank you for all the wonderful advice.
Lucky for me, I loved the Guppies and Cardinals right away, so I think I'll go with those two. Awesome that they are great started fish, and I like the way the look to!!

Thank you!