help with starting a bio cube 14

[bluegrizzlies1]

I have been out of the fish scene for 8 yrs but Im interested in doing a mini reef system. I have done frshwater and saltwater fish but never done the reef.

Ok my questions are after I get the tank

I need live rock about 13 lbs or what do you suggest.

Also I need sand how much sand do I need.

Im not fimiliar with the RO water is there something else I can buy from the store to use. Distilled water work or anything else, no fish stores even close to where I live about 90 min away.

Also I keep hearing the bio balls are trash what do I need to put in instead.

And thanks for any help

[soccerkidbs]

OK instead of bio balls take any live rock rubble you can get and put it in there. as for how many pounds of live rock is up to you. i would go with at least 14 pounds. the more the better but it depends on how you want it to look. no need for live sand it is just a waste of money IMO. i don't use ro water in my tank but i also have little to no phosphates and great water conditions. but i am switching to an ro/di unit in a week or so. i would go with at least a pound of sand for every gallon, again depending on what you want your tank to look like and how deep of a bed you like. i would buy a 20# bag that way you have some extra. i have a 29 gallon bio cube and i love it.

also depending on where you are located craigslist is a great place to get cheaper used equipment.

[FeatherDuster]

I agree on the rock rubble. 12-20lbs of live rock would be good. And you can cheat a bit on live rock by looking for rock that has lots of holes, covers a nice surface area and feels less dense. Since you only need to buy a small amount of live rock (compared to large tanks) you can take your time picking out great pieces.

[bluegrizzlies1]

After I put all this together do I need to add a dead shrimp from the store to make everything go.

Or do I just let it run this way for a couple months.

What do I run for a cleanup crew and how many I have read it is 1 critter per gallon but I have read others it is too many and they will starve.

I then want to add softies but wanted to know what was hardy and have a few differnt colors.

And then add a couple fish and wanted to know which ones would be a good choice.

So in a nutshell I want to know what people have in thier 14 gallon bio cube and is thriving well.

I have checked ebay for prices found 1 new one for $160.00 shipped and I will look at the craigslist. Im always looking for a better deal then the LFS offers.
Thanks for all your help

[Sooner_Reefer]

For a 14g, I'd say 15-20lbs of live sand, 20lbs of live rock, some small snails(Not turbos and hermits have a problem with killing snails if there isn't extra shells availble), for fish maybe a damsel or two or a pair of occlarious clownfish. I'd upgrade the lighting and if possible get some Nova Extreme T-5's on there but probably wouldn't be able to if the lights are already installed.

[soccerkidbs]

with your live rock you should be fine and not have to cycle. but just to be sure i would use a shrimp for a week. for a clean up crew wait until you complete your cycle and then add a few ceirths and other snails. i would also thrown in maybe 3-4 hermits. in my tank i have about 16 snails of different kinds. and i have 6 hermits. as for corals i am bad with names but green star polyps do great. i would go with a cool gobie and a cleaner shrimp or fire shrimp. i never pay lfs prices unless they are not to bad of price... its always nice to support a good lfs

[soccerkidbs]

damsels are not the best fish imo. they are mean and terratorial in a tank that size i would not. i also think a clown would be nice.

[Sooner_Reefer]

damsels are not the best fish imo. they are mean and terratorial in a tank that size i would not. i also think a clown would be nice.
That is true about the damsels, but they are also very hardy and a small tank means an unstable tank, so I figured it would be the best option.

[soccerkidbs]

small dosent alway mean unstable. it may be harder to keep it stable. i agree they are hardy and if you only want dams then some look very nice. just remember if you put a damsel in then they are a PITA to get back out. i had to tear apart my tank to get my killer out.

[ooja3k]

For a 14g, I'd say 15-20lbs of live sand, 20lbs of live rock, some small snails(Not turbos and hermits have a problem with killing snails if there isn't extra shells availble), for fish maybe a damsel or two or a pair of occlarious clownfish. I'd upgrade the lighting and if possible get some Nova Extreme T-5's on there but probably wouldn't be able to if the lights are already installed.

First off, don't get that much sand if you don't have to.. 15lbs is better, 20lbs will just take up valuable real estate in your tank. Also, you can absolutely have turbo snails and hermits together... My hermits just kill each other... But i started with plenty anyway...

Also, don't go with damsels... Especially first.. THey will be extremely rude to any new fish you enter into the system.. (PITA to get out also...) Id go with a pair of ocellaris clowns... I bought two which were not mated, but because they were different sizes, they paired up quickly... You can also get a goby of some kind to go with the clowns and that would probably be all you could keep...

It would be impossible to get T-5s over a aqua pod or bio cube... Fixtures are too big and the benefits of T-5s are not important there...

If you are going along the lines of a small all-in-one system, i would recommend the Nano-Cube 12 Deluxe. Check out the link below. That tank has 4 watts per gallon, more then the BioCube... With the Nano-Cube you could keep most softies in there.. You can keep most softies within either the BioCube or the Nano, but depending on where you are, heat might be an issue and therefore having the nano-cube, which has cooling fans is a much better option. If you want to truely open all your options, go with the 12g aquapod with the 70watt HQI. That adds about an extra hundred dollars. (280) but you could keep anything you want!! Its all about personal preference and depends on what you want to do with this tank.


Here are your 3 options:

12 Gallon Aquapod with 70Watt HQI: $280
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3730+13976&pcatid=13976

12 Gallon Fan Cooled NanoCube Deluxe: $170
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3730+10677&pcatid=10677

14 Gallon Biocube: $190
http://www.aquacon.com/nanotanks.html

If you want most most coral keeping ability and to keep all your options open: 12 Gallon Aquapod with 70watt HQI

If you are a little more budget concious but still want to keep a good number of corals:12 Gallon Fan Cooled Nano-Cube Deluxe

If you want two more gallons (thats pretty much the only thing the BioCube has over the others): 14 Gallon Biocube


Hope that helps and just totally didn't confuse you...

[bluegrizzlies1]

damsels arent my style I have had them before in just fish only and they are aggressive.

A couple clowns or just 1 would be fine for me.

Now as you people have said there are more tank options then the bio cube so what do people reccommend.

And thanks for all the advice so far it is helping me make my decisions easier.

Oh and by the way Im in Utah so any advice for Utah.

Do I need a heater or do they come with it or do the lights do this job.

[ooja3k]

the lights and the hood should keep the temp fairly stable..

[soccerkidbs]

i do not use a heater my temp. fluxes from 78.5 to 80.5 i keep the lid cracked open durring the day to let some of the heat out. there is the aquapod and a whole bunch of others. highest in my book is the aquapod and the bio-cube.

[bluegrizzlies1]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260167986186

Is this tank any good it is a nano so Im not sure if it is even good or should I go with the bio cube or the aquapod.

[soccerkidbs]

i have heard that short t-5's are no good but im not sure if that is true. not a bad price. keep looking localy.

[ooja3k]

at most those t-5s are like 12" long TOPS.. so that amounts to about a meaningless amount of light...

i would go with a reputable tank such as aqua-pod or nano-cube...

[bluegrizzlies1]

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_showCart.aspx?scType=add

is this a decent price with shipping and this is the 1 you reccommend ooja3k

ooja3k thanks and to everyone else thanks also

[reavesinc]

I'd go for an all glass tank with a sump if you want corals. Don't pay for over priced novelty tanks. You can also keep a fuge in the sump which will help with your levels. Go with the less live sand so you can have about 2-3" of bottom. When you pick the live rock you should scape it before purchasing so that you only buy what you need. Let the tank cycle until your levels are all at 0. Adding anything before that will just cost you more money in replacements. Turbo, Certh, Nassarus are all good snails as well as Red, Blue, and Orange legged hermits. Any type of blenny or gobie will be a good addition, as well as the smaller clowns. As for corals, softies like polyps and mushrooms are easier than others and are good starters. If you arn't going to have Metal Halide lighting I wouldn't have much else. Do not get an anemone.

[ooja3k]

blue i can't see the item you linked to because it was in your cart...

Which one you thinking of going with?

[bluegrizzlies1]

http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAND-NEW-AQUAPOD-12-GALLON-NANO-AQUARIUM-jbj-CUBE_W0QQitemZ170156348288QQihZ007QQcategoryZ20755 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Im going to long beach in dec so I was thinking of picking something up there if the price was right

But you said if I get one get the deluxe one right

As to the traditional glass aqaurium I would but been there done that with just salt water fish it was a 55 gallon but I grew tired of it and sold it a few yrs ago. Im just looking for somthing to play around with that is small and fun. Yes I have read they are more work makes for a new challenge.

[soccerkidbs]

where are you located? if you are in north cali or oregon i can help you out.

[ooja3k]

the deluxe would be if you went the nano-cube route.. if you go the aquapod route, get the one from drsfostersmith, which has the 70watt HQI... that would be the only reason you go with the aquapod over the nano-cube...

[bluegrizzlies1]

Im in Utah

Can you buy the RO water at the store or do I need to buy the equipment to make my own water.

[bluegrizzlies1]

Now I think I may go with the 12 Gallon AquaPod 70W HQI

[reavesinc]

Well then I would remove the bioballs from the back, add sand and live rock rubble, and make the back section a fuge. My gf has a nano cube, pain in the ***, needed better lighting and way way way more flow. Go with the awquapod with the MH lighting.

[ooja3k]

good choice! if you find the flow isn't enough, a small maxijet will do the trick!

[soccerkidbs]

or a korlia 1 in my case and i am about to add a maxi 600

[reavesinc]

hydor korala is a very good power head

[ooja3k]

very true! i have 2 koralia nanos in my 30long!

[soccerkidbs]

my 29 gallon now has has a flow rate of 30X it is all how you figure your powhead placement. i am thinking about adding another one to my other side.

[bluegrizzlies1]

http://www.marineandreef.com/shoppro/aquapod.htm?gclid=COLfnqKogY8CFRUHWAodYzwm3g

Anyone know where I can get it cheaper than this. $249 free shipping :headbang2:

Ok people now help me with the water situation. Where do you get this RO water and do I have to buy the filter to make it. What about water from the store in the jugs would that work and what kind.

I just cant see myself buying an RO filter for a 12 gallon aquarium.
Does distilled water work, I mean if it is RO then by all means I will have to make my own. :help:

[bluegrizzlies1]

12 Gallon AquaPod 70W HQI

What do you guys reccommend to put in this aquarium.

Make me a list of what and how many things I can keep in this tank and be successful and not over crowd things.

By the ay this board is great glad I found it and thank you for all the replys.

[Grins]

How about you start with what kinds of things you'd like to stock it with and we'll help cull the list or add to it.

[bluegrizzlies1]

Im not even sure where to start never paid too much attention to the reef never had the lights to do it with.

I know most of the fish because I have had a lot of them, I would like at least 1 clown.

[reavesinc]

First you should get your live sand and live rock and cycle. Most LFS sell sea water so you could try that but in the long run it's cheaper to make your own. Also buying the smaller RO/DI units will make up for itself in the lack of frustration at algae blooms and poor water quality. Then you should start with your clean up crews, Turbo, Certh snails, and Red-legged hermit. After that try a gobie or blenny. Then a clown or cardinal fish. Basically go to the foster and smith site, look at a bunch of fish, look at their temp and tank size requirements, and decide what you like. After that ask the forum and we can advise.

[ooja3k]

don't get live sand... waste of money...

get about 15lbs of good live rock from where ever you want... liveaquaria.com/premiumaquatics.com etc..

once the rock arrives, scrub off the stuff that has died in the trip...

then put your rock in your tank... (there is no water or sand in it yet...) then take your sand, (carrib-sea arragonite sugar sized sand, etc..), and put it around your rock to a depth of 1-2 in...

then pour whatever water you chose in there... if you made your own, make sure you make it about a day in advance (before the LR arrives so the water is ready when the live rock arrives).

now you would have your sand, rock, and water in your tank... start up the tanks filtration system... and aim your nozzle however you want your flow to be directed..

i am starting to wonder if a super small 50watt stealth heater might help... there is no lid on your tank... so i really don't know... the MH might keep its plenty warm when its on, but at night it might get cold...

then go to the market and get a raw shrimp/prawn and go to the ladies stuff section and get a pair of hoes... put the raw shrimp in one of the feet and tie it off.. then cut the rest of the hoes off...

hang this little shrimp package then somehow in your tank...

after a couple days, check your parameters... there should be a little ammonia, little nitrite, and maybe a little nitrate....

if your rock was really good, you may never see any ammonia/nitrite... chances are you will see it but it will be minimal...

oh and by the way, keep your lights off during this process.... it will help eliminate unnecessary algae outbreaks...

as a word of advice, take your shrimp out after a week at most! if your ammonia ever reaches 3ppm... take the shrimp out... that is more than enough ammonia to get the cycle going... also, if you keep testing the water and you don't see anything for a couple days in a row, just a little nitrate, that means your tank is already cycled and ready to go... also, if your shrimp is in there for like a week and you never see any ammonia/nitrite, you tank has already cycled... take the shrimp out.. does that make sense?

now you do a large (50%) WC and you may begin stocking a clean up crew... a couple astrea snails, couple nassarius snails, couple dwarf blue leg hermits, and a couple scarlet leg hermits...

then let it go with them for about a week, checking the parameters, making sure all is good...

then you my either add some corals, or a fish or two...

if you have any questions feel free to ask!!!

[reavesinc]

I wouldn't skip on the live sand, I'd buy a high quality live sand to get the critters. Add some GARFS Grunge.

[bluegrizzlies1]

live rock do I want cured or uncured

[reavesinc]

cured

[soccerkidbs]

i dont care if my rock is cured or uncured when i buy it especially when i buy it online. if i am setting up a tank i dont mind curing live rock. but if i have the tank set up and i am adding a bit more live rock then i will want cured live rock as for the sand i think live sand it a waste of money. if there is only a few dollars difference in price then i would get it. all you need is a cup of live sand from either a lfs or another reefer and that will speed up the seed time

[Reefscape]

i dont care if my rock is cured or uncured when i buy it especially when i buy it online. if i am setting up a tank i dont mind curing live rock. but if i have the tank set up and i am adding a bit more live rock then i will want cured live rock as for the sand i think live sand it a waste of money. if there is only a few dollars difference in price then i would get it. all you need is a cup of live sand from either a lfs or another reefer and that will speed up the seed time

That would certainly be my chosen route too...I really dont see the point in paying the extra bux for "live sand" when all your getting is some bacteria...Yes, add some garf grunge or something to get the critters going..Again, on the live rock, if i was starting up a new tank, i would buy uncured as you will use this to cycle the tank and cured live rock if i was adding to an established tank...

Of course, we all have our own way of doing things...its one of the beauty's of the hobby...

Niko

[reavesinc]

Now that is the truth! Everything I'm saying is just my opinion. It's what has worked for me before that's all.

[soccerkidbs]

i agree with the GRUF grunge it looks like amazing stuff and i have only heard good things. i am thinking about placing a small order for my fuge. and yes this is all just my opinion.

[reavesinc]

When I got mine I screwed up and just let the bag empty into my tank without taking out most of the water. That left me with a cloudy tank for about a week. It has a lot of silt with the crushed coral coraline and critters. FYI

[htrae2014]

This one's for soccerkidbs (as I have a 29gal Bio-cube as well); Did you replace your bio-balls with rubble as you suggested earlier in this thread? Have you made any other additions or mods such as a protein skimmer. Are you using the mech/chem carbon filter cartridges supplied with said tank? Sorry for all the questions... Suggestions are welcome from anyone else familiar with these tanks as well. Thanks!

[reavesinc]

Get rid of the bio balls and add the rubble and I only added carbon when adding coral. Turn the back into a fuge with micro algae, add a heater back there as well. I made my own filter which is just a bag of charcoal and a filter pad, to get some of the larger pieces of detritus and whatnot.

[htrae2014]

Thanks for the info!
Do you run the stock pump and\or have you added any more flow, such as with a Koralia Nano or equivalent? I have a Visatherm Stealth in the back/output corner that doesnt bother me too much. How about a skimmer? My lfs says its not necessary in a tank this size...