anarobic bacteria bubbles....

[Dangerdoll]

I'm thinking this might be the mystery problem my tank went through last month.... can anyone explain the deal on them?

[wetmanNY]

Twenty questions: is that all the hint we're going to get...

final answer: carbon dioxide.

[NJ Devils Fan]

Yea, what exactly happened last month?

[Dangerdoll]

:D whoops.....sorry, thought you guys already knew.....
I had a major problem last month that resulted in losing my angel, my ram, a few pandurini's and some cories and almost my rainbow shark from my main 55 gal. Before I realized I was up against something much bigger than a passing "ich" infestation, a lot of my fish had died. I was originally blaming the new additions of the pandurini's but was a little insecure at that idea. I do remember though that during the last couple of water changes, during the gravel siphon, there were plenty of bubbles coming up from the stones. I dismissed it, thought nothing of it until I started hearing about these anaerobic bubbles. I've never heard of them before in all my years of fish keeping. Before I lost anything else or what was left, I moved the rest of the fish over to the other 55 and moved those already there to a 30. Reason being that I did a double transfer is because of the sizes of the fish (a pleco who's 15"). The only one out of the bunch that looked as he might've suffered was the RTS, but he quickly recovered once removed from the tank and placed in the new one. For the past month I've been keeping an eye on the tank and this past week I moved over the pleco and some cories to test things out and all seems ok so far. I'll keep things like this for a week or so and try a few more...... so, it's been quite a month in the tank for me..... still can't get over losing that angel....

[wetmanNY]

..that's still my final answer, Regis: carbon dioxide.

[Dangerdoll]

ok.... so I'm thinking of removing the UGF from the tank. It covers about half of the bottom. Is there a safe way to do it besides emptying the whole thing out?

(btw, am moving the fish back to the other 55 for the process, the lesson was already learned)

[NJ Devils Fan]

Let me ask you this, how deep is your substrate?

[Dangerdoll]

hmmm........about 2" on top of the plates, and where there aren't plates, I guess about 3".... it makes a difference?

[NJ Devils Fan]

Plates?

[Dangerdoll]

the UGF plates.....I'm thinking (or so I read elsewhere) that using them might have been a contribute to the AB........ so I'm thinking it might not be a bad idea to remove it anyway and with that in mind only weighs heavier on the idea...... would I have to tear the whole tank down to do this as it may be easier and easier to recycle than to deal with what's under it? Or would I be able to do this safely while leaving everything as it is, removing the fish beforehand of course.... what do ya think?

[NJ Devils Fan]

If you have plants in the tank already, I wouldn't take out the plates because you will rip a lot of the roots. If you don't, then yea, take out the fish and remove them. Try to keep the gravel as thin a possible, the more you have, the easier it is for anerobic spots to for due to a lack of circulation. The less the better. Make sure you do have plenty circulation in the tank. What kind of filter(s) do you have in the tank? Do you have anything like a powerhead?

[Dangerdoll]

well I have plants but none are over the plated areas of the tank so I'm thinking it would be alright, plus they haven't been in there long enough to have a substantial root system, enough to be affected by the plates so I think it'd be alright. Right now, besides the UGF, I have 2 Penguin 330 bio's.

(no powerheads)

[NJ Devils Fan]

Ok, take the fish out first, then take the plates out. I would get a powerhead so you will have more circulation to help prevent the anerobic spots. I have a Maxi-jet powerhead, it is excelllent. I would recommend the 600 model, it pumps 160 gph. That should be good for your tank.

[Dangerdoll]

great, will look into getting that....thanks for your help NJD!! As always, appreciated! ;)

[NJ Devils Fan]

No problem, any time. ;)

At Big Al's, the maxi-jet powerhead model 600 is only $13.99 which is pretty good.

[Dangerdoll]

EXCELLENT!! thanks again...;) :D ;)

[somefinnfishy]

if useing air I'll bet your pushing air under the plates.
If your useing air power try power heads or bigger pump with the air stones where you can see them.Also you can shift(dont lift) that plate around once in awhile helps get the flow back.

[anonapersona]

Originally posted by wetmanNY
..that's still my final answer, Regis: carbon dioxide.

why would you think this is carbon dioxide? I thought that roots sometimes pushed out Oxygen near the roots, but CO2? How is that?

anona, ready to learn somthing new

[wetmanNY]

anonapersona carbon dioxide is an end product of all aerobic metabolisms, even aerobic bacterial ones. Other possibilities include an eruption of methane, hydrogen sulfide, nitrous oxide, nitrogen-- none so likely.

But now that I'm hearing about undergravel filters, I think somefinnsfishy has a bead on it: plain ol' atmospheric air forced under the gravel plate. I used to get that myself, if I had the airline too far down the riser tube...

[Dangerdoll]

Originally posted by somefinnfishy
if useing air I'll bet your pushing air under the plates.
If your useing air power try power heads or bigger pump with the air stones where you can see them.Also you can shift(dont lift) that plate around once in awhile helps get the flow back.

hmmm..... I'm not sure I'm understanding the question. I'm using an air pump that drives the air into the air stones in the tube thing. Do you mean to place the air stones a bit higher in the tube? Currently, they are to the very bottom of the tube and seem just below the gravel....that's not right? I've never used power heads before but have been looking into them...

[wetmanNY]

Dangerdoll, what used to happen IME was that a few stray bubbles fropm the airline would collect under the plate, find their way through a vent and rise through the gravel from time to time. Try lifting the airstone half an inch and see if that cures the burps.

BTW, I still think that the gentle bubble-driven convection through the undisturbed gravel, as you're doing it, is the best way to use UGF.

[Dangerdoll]

Originally posted by wetmanNY
Dangerdoll, what used to happen IME was that a few stray bubbles fropm the airline would collect under the plate, find their way through a vent and rise through the gravel from time to time. Try lifting the airstone half an inch and see if that cures the burps.
ok, I will give that a shot and see how it goes....for now I'll keep the UGF in place and let you know how it goes...


BTW, I still think that the gentle bubble-driven convection through the undisturbed gravel, as you're doing it, is the best way to use UGF.

you mean as I'm doing it with the stones to the bottom of the tubes? (with this, all of a sudden I feel like a newbie....after 20+ years ):eek:

[wetmanNY]

I was thinking as you're doing it, instead of powerheads and constant disturbance scouring free-flow areas in the gravel, which then leaves other areas with all but no flow... etc...

[Dangerdoll]

ok, I've raised the stones just a bit and will see how that goes. I must admit though, everything seems fairly stable since the big disaster but with this, I will keep an eye on the bubbles. Thanks for the advice...