Revised Tank Plan

[eianson]

OK. After reading more on this site and getting advice from many of you, I am revising my tank plan. Here is where I think I am going:

- 75 Gallon Glass Tank
- 4x 65W Coralife Power Compact Lights
- AquaC Remora Pro Protien Skimmer
- two (2) Maxijet 1200 Powerheads
- two (2) 150W Ebo Jager Heaters
- "The Package" from tampbaysaltwater.com (includes 150lbs of aquacultured rock, 75 lbs of live sand, 150 blue leg hermit crabs, 38 turbo snails, 4 tiger tail cucumbers, 2 serpent or brittle stars, 2 pistol shrimp)

My intention is to keep 8-10 small/medium semi-agressive fish (clown, chromis, basslet, dottyback, cardinal, hawkfish, and maybe an angel). Some non-SPS corals too...I think some will come with "The Package".

Soooooo....anyone see any glaring problems with this plan? It is costing me a small forture and I want to do it right.

Thanks,
Eric

[mogurnda]

I love TBS rock. A month ago I posted a review (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=195898) of the stuff after a year in my tank. I hope you're not offended that I don't retype and relink it all here, but you also get to see others' coments.

[OrionGirl]

Depending on what fish you get--you could be overstocking. SW bio-loads are much smaller than FW tanks, and 8-10 fish could easily be too many. Also, keep in mind that clowns and chromis are closely related, and may fight. Brutally. Mixing clown species can also be a problem--they may look cute, but clowns are nasty little buggers, very territorial.

[mogurnda]

When I ordered my TBS rock, they had started substituting peppermint shrimp for pistols. Maybe that's why I have never had an Aiptasia problem. However, the dottyback and hawkfish may eat them, and other cool mobile inverts, like the porcelain crabs and small pistols that hitchhike on the rock.
Not sure if you're overstocked, but certainly take it easy and slow in adding them. For the clowns, my preference is always to get pairs. They seem to like the company, and it's easy to end up with a pair if you start with juveniles.

[eianson]

Oriongirl,

I've seen conflicting things on this. One of the books I have been reading is The New Marine Aquarist. In that book it says the traditional stocking rule of thumb was 1 inch of fish for every 5 gallons (so for a 75 gallon = 15 inches of fish....or five 3 inch fish). The NMA suggests that with a tank using live rock as the primary means of biological filtration can support 1 inch of fish for every 2 gallons (so for a 75 gallon = 37.5 inches of fish or about twelve 3 inch fish.). I split the difference and went with 8-10 fish.

I've heard that clowns can be trouble (mostly with other clowns), but I am somewhat surprised to hear that they would go after chromis (I am thinking blue/green chromis in a small school 3-4).

BTW...I find your posts to be very informative and appreciate you replying to mine.

Eric

[BrianH]

IMHO 150 blue leg hermits is way too many for a 75 gal. tank.
You'll be lucky to have any turbos left after all those blue legs get after them. I would start with no more than 25 and add later if needed. I also would not add 4 tiger tails. They get pretty large after a while and I don't think you'll have enough surface area on your sand bed to support 4 of them. I would suggest starting out with 1 or 2 max. See if you can substitute some scarlet leg hermits, nassarius, cerith, trochus snails and mabye a fighting conch for all the hermits and cukes. JMHO

Brian

[eianson]

Originally posted by mogurnda
I love TBS rock. A month ago I posted a review (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=195898) of the stuff after a year in my tank. I hope you're not offended that I don't retype and relink it all here, but you also get to see others' coments.

Mogurnda,

Thanks for the link. There is some great info in there. Based on what I read, TBS still looks like the way to go. I guess I will just have to take care to try and get the "bad" hitchikers out of the tank before they do too much damage.

Thanks,
Eric

[mogurnda]

Oh, and TBS says "turbo" but they will be astreas. Mine are still alive after a year, though. One is even 2 years old. I agree with BrianH about the cukes, and reducing the hermits, but TBS won't go for it. You'll get ceriths as hitchhikers anyway.
I have a theory about all the hermits. TBS rock arrives with a lot of sponge and other stuff that ultimately won't survive in the tank. I bet there would be an enormous algae bloom if you got a "package" without the large detritivore population.
Have you really seen a blue leg attack something as big as a turbo, Brian? I got the package, and the huge hermit population and they have never shown any interest in any snail larger than a cerith. Once things settled down, I got rid of some, and cannabalism took care of others.

[OrionGirl]

Inch/gallon rules are very hard to apply across multiple species. If you'r talking about peaceful, smmall, schooling fish, they work. Once you move to fish that require territory, are not slim bodied, and not schoolers, those rules are pitifully inadequate. A 75 for a 15 inch volitan or a 75 for 1 yellow tang, 1 regal tang and one kole tang--which will work? The tangs will beat the crap out of each other in no time flat.

Clowns will go after anything that feeds in the same manner--ie, grazing. I've seen them abuse tangs and gobies, not to mention conspecifics.

[eianson]

Hmmm. OK. Any recommendations on a mix of small fish that will be visually attractive, interesting behaviorally and not kill each other?

[mogurnda]

I am totally enamored with ocellaris clowns, so I'm biased. They are probably the least aggressive of the clowns. Cardinals are great, as are basslets. Dwarf angel species (Centropyge), like flame angels, can work, although some can pick at corals. The stocking levels sugested by NMA sound a bit high to me too. Plus, you will get a lot of biomass with the rock.
Another thing to remember is that the system will take a while to stabilize. You will get a small cycle with each installment of the package, and you should probably wait 6-8 weeks after the last shipment before even thinking about adding fish. That will give you more time to think about who you want. I always recomment John Tullock's Natiral Reef Aquariums and Bob Fenner's Conscientious Marine Aquarist to get a better idea of how to stock.

[BrianH]

Mogurnda,

I only have 3 blue leg hermits in a 50gal reef(1 out of 3 wearing turbo snail shell), and they are very aggressive. They have killed numerous snails (turbo, cerith) and 2 fighting conchs! I actually witnessed one of the blue leggs carrying a fighting conch behind the LR. I was able to save the conch that time, but the next day I saw 1 of the blue legs wearing a brand new conch shell and never saw the conch again. Now I only add scarlet leg hermits to my tank. Oh, by the way, I did add a handful(about 10) of empty shells to the tank when I first put the hermits in.

Brian

[eianson]

I picked up The Conscientious Marine Aquarist last night. A good book. My initial takaway is that it is really difficult to find a nice community balance for a semi-reef tank. While I still have plenty of time to refine my stocking plan, does this seem a little more realistic:

2 Ocellaris Clown (they are not too aggressive and work well in pairs)
1 Hippo Tang (my only concern is outgrowing the tank...I think average size is about 6-8 in)
2-3 Bangai Cardinal (sound like nice peaceful fish)
1 Royal Gramma Basslet (very pretty and peaceful)

I would also love a Flame Angel, but it sounds like it will do too much damage to the coral.

Any suggestions or recommendations?

Thanks,
Eric

[mogurnda]

I saw 1 of the blue legs wearing a brand new conch shell and never saw the conch again Jeez! Didn't mean to doubt you, but I have seen blue legs blamed for a lot of stuff, and I always wonder how much of it is hearsay and how much is personal experience.
Eric, your stocking sounds great to me. Dunno about the tang, because you can't fit one into a micro/nano I have never tried them.

[OrionGirl]

Flame angels vary a lot--some are fine, others will pick on large polyps and clam mantles. So, decide what kind of corals you'll want. The bicolor angels are also considered nibblers, and ours has been very well behaved in the reef.

[Ray Pollett]

Originally posted by eianson
I picked up The Conscientious Marine Aquarist last night. A good book. My initial takaway is that it is really difficult to find a nice community balance for a semi-reef tank. While I still have plenty of time to refine my stocking plan, does this seem a little more realistic:

__________________________________________________ __Excellent book



__________________________________________________ __
2 Ocellaris Clown (they are not too aggressive and work well in pairs)
__________________________________________________ __Good choice

__________________________________________________
1 Hippo Tang (my only concern is outgrowing the tank...I think average size is about 6-8 in)
__________________________________________________ _

If we are talking about the Paracanthurus hepatus I would say not a good choice. They can out grow your tank; as the can get to a foot long. Second, it is a some what delicate fish. It is prone to Ich and other problems; and does not ship well from what I've seen.

__________________________________________________ _

2-3 Bangai Cardinal (sound like nice peaceful fish)
1 Royal Gramma Basslet (very pretty and peaceful)
__________________________________________________ __

Good choices

__________________________________________________ _
I would also love a Flame Angel, but it sounds like it will do too much damage to the coral.
__________________________________________________ _
Needs a stable mature tank with a lot of LR. A large # are caught with Cyanide. A great fish if you can get a healthy one. If kept well fed it seems to be ok in a reef but it is an angel and can change at any time.



Any suggestions or recommendations?

Thanks,
Eric

Ray

[MonoSebaelover]

I once heard that 50 percent of Flames will touch corals and 50 percent won't. So you would have a 1 out of 2 chance of getting one that doesn't eat corals. Agree on ditching the Blue Tang. Look into a smaller tang (yellow, kole, etc). Be careful with mulitple Bangaii Cardinals. A lot of times a male will kill off all others in the tank. Sometimes a pair will establish and kill off all others to. The best thing is to watch several kept together for awhile and see if there are two that are left, they are probably a pair. Mainly look at where they are in reference into one another. If they are at seperate ends or one is cowarding then they are definetly not a pair. A pair will generally stick together. My personal favorite clown is far and away the Clarkii but they will be too aggressive for your tank. Anyway, hope this helps and good luck. A really good book to invest in as well is Scott Michaels a Pocket Guide to Marine Fish. A must have for serious aquariusts.