First attempt: DIY rocky caves

[NinjaPenguin]

Heres my first attempt at creating a 3d rocky ornamental cave structure for my GBR's. I wasn't sure how it was going to turn out so I didn't document it very well and missed out on photographing quite a few steps. I'm surprised how well it turned out though so here goes...

Started with 2 odd shaped pieces of polystyrene left over from the packaging we received our new washing machine in, glued them together using marine silicone sealant, carved out the basic rock shapes with a hacksaw blade then proceeded to melt and shape the structure using a candle flame. The result...

http://photo.w3b2.com/phish/gbr_caves/gbr_cave_01.jpg

Hunted all over for modellers concrete/quickcrete and in the end settled on external crack filler for the base compound. Purchased 3 colors of powdered water based paint to give me the range of browns I wanted: Burnt Sienna, Red Oxide and Black. Mixed the base compound as follows:

4 table spoons burnt sienna paint
2 cups crack filler
1 cup playpen sand for texture
1 table spoon coarse salt

Added enough warm water to mix up a smooth paste suitable for brushing onto the polystyrene "mold" - Looks almost flesh tone when wet and a pale beige when dry...

http://photo.w3b2.com/phish/gbr_caves/gbr_cave_02.jpg

24 hours later and the mixture has set - time for a second coating:

2 table spoons burn't sienna
2 table spoons red oxide
1 table spoon black
1 table spoon coarse salt
1 cup crack filler
1 cup playpen sand for texture

12 hours of baking in the sun and it's set rock solid. Time to mix some tones and dab on sparsely to create highlights and lowlights.

Highlights (added water and mix to watery paste)

1 spoon burnt sienna
1 spoon red oxide
1 spoon black
1 spoon crack filler

Lowlights (added water and mix to watery paste)

1 spoon burnt sienna
2 spoons red oxide
5 spoons black
1 spoon crack filler

Used a piece of mutton cloth dipped in the various tones of paint to apply the highlights and lowlights. It looks a lot darker when first applied but fades quite a bit when drying.

http://photo.w3b2.com/phish/gbr_caves/gbr_cave_03.jpg

Heres a closeup of the textures when dry...

http://photo.w3b2.com/phish/gbr_caves/gbr_cave_04.jpg

From the front...

http://photo.w3b2.com/phish/gbr_caves/gbr_cave_05.jpg

Next step will be to coat the whole thing in fibreglass resin which I suspect will darken the colors a bit. I'll wait a couple of days to make sure it's cured properly before attempting this...

How am I doing so far?

[JoeQuality]

Very good, I like the design. Be sure to cure the thing well otherwise your pH will take forever to come down to acceptable levels.

[AnDr3w]

That's pretty cool. Next time make the pix a little smaller please! :);)

[NinjaPenguin]

Very good, I like the design. Be sure to cure the thing well otherwise your pH will take forever to come down to acceptable levels.

Thanks! :)

I'm planning on coating the whole thing in resin - that should stop any pH issues?


That's pretty cool. Next time make the pix a little smaller please! :);)

Done! better?

[AnDr3w]

Thanks! :)

I'm planning on coating the whole thing in resin - that should stop any pH issues?



Done! better?

:thumbsup:

[NinjaPenguin]

Ok so heres the official result of the excercise: DISMAL FAILURE! :headshake2:

The fibreglass resin turned my work of art into a giant floating turd!:wall:
2 much polystyrene too - not even 2 bricks can hold it down underwater! :confused:

http://photo.w3b2.com/phish/gbr_caves/gbr_cave_06.jpg

O well... Back to the drawing board... :drool:

[Nolapete]

That's pretty cool. Next time make the pix a little smaller please! :);)

Why make them smaller? The server automatically resizes them.

[Nolapete]

You made a poopy! HAHAHA!

[chucke]

SAD TO HEAR THATMAN! GOOD TRY THOUGH!

[NinjaPenguin]

Thanks chucke! I'll get it right next time! :)

[smyke]

what if you just silicone that bad boy to the bottom of your tank?

also how long will the fiberglass resin have to cure for? I built a diy background using similar technique but afraid to put it in the tank. :)

[NinjaPenguin]

to be safe I reckon around 72 hours - until you can't smell it anymore at least. I used the remaining resin to fix a crack in my indoor pond and it seems fine after 36 hours. If you put it in water too early it gets a white film over it...

the "turd" actually looks pretty good hidden amongst the flowers and thingies in our front door flower bed! not a total loss after all! :)

[succaneers]

you know it's the funniest thing - I was reading this from the beginning and thinking how is he going to stop this thing from floating?

I think what they said (silicone or similar to the bottom of the tank) would be good, but it would be a nightmare trying to clean it underneath and inside.

[FishyFry]

You made a poopy! HAHAHA!


:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
:laugh: _ _ _ _ _ _ :laugh:
:laugh: _ _ _ _ _ _ :laugh:
:laugh: _ _ _ _ _ _ :laugh:
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

I think it would have looked pretty cool once sunk and in a tank full of water.

[Derringer]

You could silicone it to a slab of slate that way youre not losing too much of it beneath your substrate.

[Quartermain]

NinjaPenguin, you could layer on fiberglass until you have produced a sturdy shell then drill a hole into which you will pour acetone to dissolve the polystyrene. Thoroughly clean and dry the empty shell and fill with aquarium gravel to weight it down.

[mphunk]

What about Silicone gluing it to the top of the Brick and then placing it in the tank?

[magakitty]

Float it in the pool next time you have unwanted guests - guaranteed to empty the pool - QUICKLY!!! :rofl:

[PufferFan]

i think it looks great! hope you can figure it out :)

[NinjaPenguin]

Thanks for the votes of confidence, problem solving ideas and humor! :)

My teenage daughter figured it out! I was hard at work on my 2nd attempt when she asked if she could cover the whole thing in a thick layer of quickcrete and start afresh... heres the result of her efforts:

http://photo.w3b2.com/phish/gbr_caves/gbr_cave_07.jpg

http://photo.w3b2.com/phish/gbr_caves/gbr_cave_08.jpg

She's very proud of her idea and handywork! :)

To solve the floating problem she removed some of the polystyrene from the bottom and filled it with pebbles then covered them with cement. This increased the weight substantially!

We are going to leave it to cure for another week or so before deciding how best to seal it... marine varnish? any ideas? We definitely won't be trying resin again! :headshake2:

We've decided to go out shopping soon and get another 30G which will use this rock as a paludarium centre piece. This will be her tank and she'll have the final say as to how it's stocked etc. Will look really kewl I'm sure! :)

And here is my 2nd attempt destined for my GBR tank...

http://photo.w3b2.com/phish/gbr_caves/gbr_cave_09.jpg

A bit more compact, less "busy/bulky" and it should compliment the substrate I have chosen quite nicely! I'll start another step by step thread when I get it right - can't stand the humiliation of another public failure! :grinyes:

[hatcheridiot]

It's definately not a total loss and certainly not a failure!

1. Some people actually learn from others mistakes
2. Practice makes perfect
3. One could make a good argument that real men are measured not by their failures, but their "try".
4. (my personal favorite) It's great entertainment watching other peoples failures!

All kidding aside, that was/is a cool project, hope to see the final results of your efforts.

........And again, thanks for everything that I learned at your expense.

[NinjaPenguin]

All kidding aside, that was/is a cool project, hope to see the final results of your efforts.

........And again, thanks for everything that I learned at your expense.

Thanks hatcheridiot! :)

A couple of things I can always count on here on AC - Some really great advice from really helpful people and the right amount of humor/wisdom to make light of any predicament! :)

I'll most definitely be posting photo's of the results although it's going to take a few weeks to complete. I've unfortunately wiped out my fishy budget - the minister of finance & home affairs (the wife) says no more spending until next month so we'll be giving the quickcrete plenty of time to cure! lol

So... any tips on sealing the monster? marine varnish?

[Quartermain]

Yo.

http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/11727/cid/3026

-edit-

Egad! I just noticed the price. Well it's an option anyway.

-edit again-

Here's possibily another more affordable option..
http://www.aquaart.com/sealants.html

[bluedaisy]

Actually, couldn't you just keep working on the same piece? Maybe drill out the inside from the bottom and attach bags of cheap heavy gravel or something else to the inside. The outside is trickier. Can you try again using different colors or would it not stick to the resin?

[NinjaPenguin]

Here's possibily another more affordable option..

Thanks Quartermain! Looks hellishly expensive though and the shipping costs to South Africa would probably double the price. I'll see if I can find a local supplier based on the product info given! :)


Can you try again using different colors or would it not stick to the resin?

My daughter was able to resurrect the original piece and the quickcrete we used didn't have a problem sticking to the resin on the outside.

The original Problem was that the resin melted/mixed with the color stain used and it started to run so we lost all definition and detail and ended up with a dark ugly unnatural looking mess.


also how long will the fiberglass resin have to cure for? I built a diy background using similar technique but afraid to put it in the tank. :)

The instructions on the packaging say 24 to 48 hours curing time but according to a pond building site I found it should be left to cure for around 2 weeks depending on how much hardener you mixed with it.

I used some of it to repair a leak in my indoor pond and after 7 days in the sun it still hasn't cured properly. It gets a white film over it on contact with water after a day or 2 of standing which can't be too healthy for fish.

[eaglesandfish]

It still looks great. you might want to offer it to some one with a reptile tank. Im sure they would be happy to have it.

[MIKE D]

Maybe this http://www.minwax.com/products/protective/polycrylic.cfm

[Gunn111]

I have read several posts on other sites that say the Quickrete as an outer most layer is fine. You just need to cure it in water for a couple of weeks with regular water changes. Of course i would want to do some testing of the water and make sure my PH stayed the same from the last water change unitl the next day or two.

[Gunn111]

Sorry, forgot about the salt......most of the post describe adding aquarium salt to the water.....I guess it acts as a softener and helps cure the concrete......

[NinjaPenguin]

I have read several posts on other sites that say the Quickrete as an outer most layer is fine. You just need to cure it in water for a couple of weeks with regular water changes. Of course i would want to do some testing of the water and make sure my PH stayed the same from the last water change unitl the next day or two.

Thanks for the input! I used a water based powdered paint mixed in with the quickcrete to give it some color and I'm worried this will leach into the tank water hence the need to seal it good and proper.

I found a great marine varnish product called Woodoc 50 (http://www.woodoc.com/products/specifications/w50_25_3_1.pdf) which is manufactured locally and contacted their help desk - was most surprised when the CEO himself contacted me directly to reassure me that they have gone to a lot of trouble to make their product as non-toxic and safe as possible but couldn't guarantee it 100%. He was happy with my suggestion that it sit on the bottom of our swimming pool for a couple of weeks prior to being "crash tested" by a bunch of pond snails and feeder guppies.

Heres the latest photographs taken after applying a second coat of varnish...

http://photo.w3b2.com/phish/gbr_caves/gbr_cave_13.jpg

http://photo.w3b2.com/phish/gbr_caves/gbr_cave_14.jpg

Heres the 2nd attempt...

http://photo.w3b2.com/phish/gbr_caves/gbr_cave_10.jpg
Front...
http://photo.w3b2.com/phish/gbr_caves/gbr_cave_11.jpg
Back...
http://photo.w3b2.com/phish/gbr_caves/gbr_cave_12.jpg
Close-up...

It will lose some of the gloss after a couple of days drying. Still not 100% happy with the color but hey I think it's much improved and pretty kewl! :headbang2:

[hatcheridiot]

That looks wicked cool! Definately NOT looking like something man made....good job, cant wait to see it wet!

[MIKE D]

Aside from making the cave float will the resin seal in the cement and color? Im taking your basic idea and modifying it into a backgroung with caves. I have access to marble and would be sealing the whole thing to it. Also could you use an airbrush and spray the colors onto the cement before adding the resin?

[maverickprince]

Check out my thread that might come in handy... I used Fiberglass Resin as well... with success I might add.

http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2063

[NinjaPenguin]

Aside from making the cave float will the resin seal in the cement and color? Im taking your basic idea and modifying it into a backgroung with caves. I have access to marble and would be sealing the whole thing to it. Also could you use an airbrush and spray the colors onto the cement before adding the resin?

Heres a couple of things I have learn't...

1. Resin = EVIL!!!
2. Resin eats styrofoam/polystyrene
3. Resin draws the paint out of the concrete and forms unsightly blobs
4. Resin = EVIL!!!

The airbrush idea is great and should work very well! I used sponge and a piece of mutton cloth dipped in a weak mixture of powdered paint and water then dabbed it on.


Check out my thread that might come in handy... I used Fiberglass Resin as well... with success I might add.

Nice! got any updated pics? :)

How long did it take to cure? The resin in my pond is STILL leaching white stuff and it's been nearly 3 weeks now! :mad2:

[maverickprince]

I heard somewhere that when it stops smelling of fumes, then it's okay to try immersing it then doing some water changes... I was in no rush, so I think it was a few weeks airing out then a few more weeks of water changes... totally on the safe side.

I'll update some pics in a few weeks... just finishing up a *volcano*. lol.

Good luck with your project!