View Full Version : Breeding Large Cichlids
Dragon_Lord_Tia
07-04-2003, 12:16 AM
large tank
haha.. omg.. GET A 300 GALLON TANK TO BREED YOUR FISH!
tnlguinn
07-04-2003, 8:10 AM
what kind of large cichlids? where from(CA/SA)? what size now? current tank dimensions? water parameters?tankmates?filtration and setup? we need all of this info to even be able to start to answer your Q.
predatorcichlid
07-04-2003, 9:23 AM
Like the last post said more info is needed. I have bred just about every large SA/CA cichlid from convicts to wild caught Dovii. Different cichlids will require different needs to breed.
I am trying to breed festae. I currently have five juveniles (about an inch and a half) in a 150. I plan on using a divider, once they pair off. Filtration is a Fluval 404 for a biofilter and two AC 500s. Ph is 7.5 KH is three degrees. Temp 79. There will be no tankmates.
Also how long should I expect it to take for them to pair off, I am thinking about eight months?
I was just looking for some general suggestions on how to set up the tank for the breeding and what to do with the fry. Thanks.
predatorcichlid
07-05-2003, 9:58 AM
Well scott, if they are true festae they can be very difficult to breed. It is common for pairs of that species to liquidate one another during breeding. Have you bred any other entry level cichlids before like dempey, convicts, or firemouths? previous experience is helpful when attempting to breed a cichlid like a festae.
The festae is only endemic to Rio drainages of Ecuador. Because of this limited distribution they do not tolorate a wide range of water parameters like some other cichlids do. The divided method is used to allow a smaller female to escape a larger more aggressive male. Females festae are more aggressive then males and can actually kill off a larger male in this speces, hence the divider method usually does not work. finally feaste mature a very slow rate makeing them more likely as juvniles to wipe out one another (feaste will not tolorate one another). I and many others have found the feaste a very challanging cichlid to breed. I would recommend if you do not have previous experience with other cichlids and know what to look for, how to handle them and the fry do not attempt the festae.
Here are some tips to get you going.
Water temp. 80 to 83°f PH of 6.7 with low minerial content. Because of their aggression and the fact that females can be just a bad as male use alot of cover and rocks to allow them to get away from one another. Place several flat rockes and large caves in the tank to allow them to choose a breeding site. watch for typical large cichlid breeding behavior. The female will become a very bright red around the head when in breeding dress, and some males may show a stripe pattern. If you see them killing one another put up a divider (egg creat) and place a large flat rock on the females side. angle the rock toward the males side of the tank. The male will still in most cases be able the fertilize some of the eggs. When you see the pair starting to show breeding behavior feed them well. This will help with aggression and condition them for breeding. Raw fish and shrim meat along with a good quality dry pellet or stick foods. They are omnivors and will consume most all foods. Good luck
scott
07-05-2003, 10:16 AM
Thanks for the tips. They are F1 festae from Jeff Rapps. I have bred convicts (all be it a long time ago) and more recently my Blackbelt (all be it accidental) but I was interested in the festae because of the challenge and I believe I have the patience and willingness to learn to make it successful.
Do you think some target fish will help aleviate the crankiness while maturing? I was thinking of putting up the eggcrate as soon as a pair forms, will this mess up any pair bond?
predatorcichlid
07-05-2003, 11:58 AM
F1's from rapps should make excellent breeding stock. The egg create will not afffect the pair in all the cases I have had or heard of. When a pair forms they will show the same behavior the blackbelts and convicts displayed only on somewhat more aggressive level. Hobbiest who have never seen cichlids breed sometimes ask why that are acting funny or fighting. When they describe there behavior is becomes clear they are showing breeding signs. So experience in seeing other easier to breed cichlids helps out greatly when attempting to breed harder cichlids like the feaste. It's hard to judge a persons confendence level on the net so I usually warn people before hand. As far a target fish go it may or may not help in this case. I know target fish just tick off most guapotes, but don't have any experience with target fish and festae. It sound like you have everything covered. IMO festae are among the most difficult SA/CA cichlids the aquire and breed. IF you can breed them you can just about breed any other cichlid out their. Keep us posted to your progress scott.
scott
07-05-2003, 12:08 PM
Thanks for all of the tips, I really appreciate your input. I have some Giant Danios in there now and I will see the effect it has as the fish grow. I was hoping it would buy me more time with in fighting while a pair forms. I will jack up the temp and switch to an RO mix to get the pH and TDS down. Like I said they are only about and inch and a half now so I am hoping to have a pair by Christmas. Anyway thanks for all of the advice.
Oh yeah, in your experience what size do the fish start to show their sex?
scott - I have not bred festae but IME getting your stock at a small size and having them grow up together is a very good way to minimize aggression, so is plenty of hidingspots , targetfish , good feeding and good clean water.
With guapotes I have observed that targetfish are almost indispensable to avoid having the male and female turn their aggression against eachother. I like using convicts as they stay relativley small and managable not presenting a real threat to the pair, furthermore you can construct hiding spots for convicts that the festae won't be able to get into.
As far as tanksize, you should let the pair form in a large tank with plenty of aquascape - once the pair is formed and of breeding age they can be moved to their own tank which can be smaller.
Good luck - they are beautiful fish.
INXS- I have been using giant danios for target fish and the little festae have already killed one by chasing it out of the tank. Now the largest (maybe an inch and threequarters) just hangs out at the top and as the danios swim by he strikes at them. When do you suggest adding the convicts? I have read about this in other places but didn't really understand the principal of adding another aggressive fish. Should I add just one convict? Should I use multiple same sex, or a pair? When should I introduce them, after a pair of festae has formed? Thanks for the input, I appreciate the help. I am afraid that the convict growth rate will outpace the festae and the festae will be killed.
IME having noncichlids in a tank that houses large and aggressive cichlids is one of the few ways of being able to keep more fish together in the same tank - you have to pick them to be large enough and fast enough not to become a meal.
By using tinfoil barbs, silver sharks, silver dollars or any catfish you can add movement and life to a large tank which may only house one or a couple of cichlids. As the cichlids sense that the other fish are noncompetators they will usually leave them alone.
By adding another cichlid there is now competition for terratory and it needs to be guarded. If you don't have that threat some "enthusiasm" to breed may turn too violent as an aquarium has limited space and the fish may get hurt or killed.
I prefer convicts because:
- they are cheap
- readily available
- hardy and can take a beating
- small enough to get away and hide
- small enough not to pose a threat to the fish you really want to keep.
When I moved my managuense pair from the community tank and into their own breeding tank the bond they had developed while protecting their spawn and terratory against all the other cichlids drastically weakend and the male beat up on the female.
After adding a couple of convicts (one promptly got killed) they now concentrate on keeping the little bugger in his terratory and haven't been violent with eachothers.
Makes sense. I picked up some convict fry from a friend for free. They are about the same size or a little smaller than the festae. THey are in a 10 gal Q tank right now. WHen do you think I should add them?
AikidoGuy
07-16-2003, 12:37 PM
Here my pal Mojos breeding festae. I believe he breeds them in a 150gallon tank that has a divider. The divider has holes cut out so the smaller male can visit the much larger female and still be able to retreat if she gets rowdy since she is too large to fit throught the same hole.
http://www.aquamojo.com/festae/Festae%2093b.jpg
scott
07-16-2003, 12:39 PM
Ah the famous Mojo festae. Beautiful fish. Hope mine turn out like that!
peifc
07-16-2003, 12:42 PM
Wow....what a beauty. Hmm....only if I have enough money.....
AikidoGuy
07-16-2003, 12:47 PM
I currently have a stunningly beautiful F1 female that I am seriously thinking of breeding if I can find a decent sized wild or F1 male to mate her up with. Festae are somewhat of a slow grower when compared to the others in its species. a 75gallon tank should be ok for strictly breeding purposes for a good amount of time. the 150 would be ideal for a full grown pair.
scott
07-16-2003, 12:51 PM
Here's my little guy. He's from Jeff Rapps too.
http://www.photo.net/photodb/image-display?photo_id=1580982&size=sm http://
AikidoGuy
07-16-2003, 1:00 PM
Mine too is a Rapps fish. I t was then sold to Cichlidscene who then gave it to Mojo who then gave it to me. Shes been around.. Shes the twin sister of this beauty(they are from the same batch of fry this is the one Cichlidscene kept for himself):
http://www.cichlidscene.com/img/festjuv/lg/20021025fes5.jpg
Stunning colors! I can't wait! Truly a magnificent fish. What do you feed? Right now I am using a mix of Formula one and two with spirulina powder as a staple, they're a little to small for pellets. They get Mysis and bloodworms frozen in addition to spirulina and formula two frozen, and a little spinach for good luck (I read that festae had a diet that composed of almost %25 vegetable matter in the wild, have you heard anything like this?) They also get the pureed earthworms as an occasional fresh treat.
AikidoGuy
07-16-2003, 2:08 PM
HBH Soft and Moist with Spirulina, freeze dried krill, Jehmcos Veggie flakes, Raw shrimp, Basic Tetra Cichlid color sticks, blanched lettuce. Shell eat anything I put in the water.
Also she LOVES big water chages. I normaly do 50% every week but sometimes ill take out 75-80% of the water. When i fill it back up she goes right into breeding colors and her tube comes out. She has laid eggs twice after i have done that.
Sweet! Thanks for the tips. Do you use romaine? Do you blanch it? I am doing %40 H2o changes right now, time to buy a python! What temp ph KH do you have?