Best Way to Lower pH from Tap to Tank.

[spudjnr123]

Ok, so I I have an API Drop Test Kit and all, And I've got Blur Rams. They need a pH of around 6.8, and I've got water at approx. 7.6. So, When changing water, how should I treat the water? I have API pH down, but I don't really know how well it's working. Is there a faster working pH lowering solution that I can add to the water while transferring?

[silentskream]

nope.. nothing faster.

you could get an RO unit.. or you could get a "holding tank" for the water with a peat filter on it.. and use that water to do your water changes.

[spudjnr123]

Actually, I think pH down works fine. I usually don't test right after the Water Changes, but I did today after adding the pH down, and that stuff works pretty close to instantly, I think I was just worried about it, but will it be ok if I add tap water and then add pH down, or should I do the tap water in a bucket with pH down to match pH and THEN add to tank?

[pinkertd]

Why are you concerned about changing the ph for the Blue Rams? I kept and spawned mine at municipal tap ph 7.6 always.

[wataugachicken]

pH is a tricky thing. a stable unchanging pH is much safer and less stressful for fish than one that is changing all the time. unless you plan on breeding your rams they do not need a lower pH - even then it may not be a problem at all if the water is soft (which is different from pH). if that is something you plan on doing in the future, using long-term tank additives like driftwood and peat will provide a more stable environment for them than chemicals. also - if you choose to keep using the pH down, mix it in a bucket first. if you just add it to the tank after refilling the major fluctuations are definitely going to harm your fish.

[spudjnr123]

They've been exhibiting stress colorations, ever since I bought them two months ago, that's why I was asking. I was trying to do everything possible to make the environment the best I can.

[DisgruntledUser]

I was thinking about doing the same thing on a blue ram tank, using ph lowering agent to drop my tap from 7 to 6.5. my current tank is running about 6.8 -6.6 but I think that is because of the flourite substrate, the rams seem to be doing well, but I'd rather have the water dialed in exactly, especially on other tanks where the ph might be higher naturally. I plan to add a little bit of sand to the front of the blue ram tank (with flourite and gravel in the back planted) to hopefully make them a little happier. I hope the ph adjuster works for your rams, let us know how they do.

[Canuck]

Blue rams (same as many Amazonian fish) native waters are soft with a low pH. Soft water is low in TDS (total dissolved solids). Water with low dissolved solids generally has a low pH. Now how effective do you think it will be in making your rams more comfortable by dumping in pH down and increasing TDS and pH yoyoing up and down.

[spudjnr123]

Ok, Honestly not necessary to get mean, I'm just trying to do what's right for the fish. My water is PERFECT in every other way, Nitrites 0, Ammonia 0, Nitrates 5-10, gH of 8, kH of 5. Every single site I've looked on about Rams says they do best in neutral to acidic water. Obviously 7.6 is not neutral, hell, the human body has a pH of 7.2, anything above that and proteins start degrading. Now, I realize that you're trying to help but for God's sake can't you do it without trying to demean me. Honestly I came here to ask a question and get answers, not to get told off. That's the purpose of this site, provide information, to those needing it.

Now, Maybe, I will switch out my fake driftwood for some real driftwood to get the extra tannins to leach, and provide a more stable pH but see that's the problem, my tap water is 7.6 so if you can see a way to keep the pH in the tank low by adding water at a pH of 7.6, then you deserve a Noble Prize. Basically the issue is that every time I add water to the tank, I'm making my pH "yoyo". So yes, I do think it's important to use whatever I can to make the conditions as optimal as possible.

[DisgruntledUser]

canuck, adding ph down increases tds? is tds the same as hardness?

[doreenjoy]

Do you have any indications from your fish that they aren't healthy in the water you have?

I personally believe it's better to keep the water as free of chemicals and alterations as possible, even if it means the ph is a little higher than the "ideal" ph for the fish..

[spudjnr123]

Yeah, my fish show extreme signs of stress. They are colored badly, and have been ever since I got them two months ago. I'd like to keep my water as chem free as possible, but they just don't seem to be doing well.

[Canuck]

A general hardness test kit indicates the amounts of calcium and magnesium, the chemicals in pH down will not show up on this test. Total Dissolved solids are tested with a conductivity meter.

[wataugachicken]

your water sounds fine. more than likely if you bought them young from an LFS they are showing their normal (faded-out) juvenile coloration because the color enhancing hormones used at the breeder have worn off. do they ever color up at all?

[silentskream]

if you've been adding PH down directly for the tank, then there's a good chance your PH is swinging up and down, which is extremely bad for your fish.
they would be much better off with regular hard water than with water that jumps up and down. the most important thing is that it's stable. the exact mumber is less of an issue.

[pinkertd]

What do you mean by colored badly? Have the colors faded? It's quite possible if that's what has happened that you bought fish that were hormoned to color up at an early age or they were fed lots of color enhancing fish food. Young rams do not have the vibrant colors of adults rams. Unless you purchased wild stock which you did not say, I would not change the ph of you water. It is much more harmful for them to not have a stable ph and also to be subjected to more chemicals added to the water. The "ideal" conditions listed for tropical fish refer to their native habitat, where they are found. Clean, warm water, lots of premium food and stable chemistry IMO is best. My discus breed and hatch fry in my hard 7.6 tap water and according to a lot of literature available on the internet, eggs won't hatch in my water. But they do.

[doreenjoy]

I can't add more to what the above three posters had to say. I think they made great points for consideration.

Fish bred in captivity can adapt to a fairly wide range of pH. I suspect the issue is something other than pH. Could you post a photo of the fish?

[spudjnr123]

By colored badly, I mean "stress coloration" here are pics

Male:
http://photos-235.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sctm/v126/76/22/33311235/n33311235_32440544_1747.jpg

Female:
http://a449.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/61/l_b75a77adba5490436be4eb3e1d455880.jpg

http://a60.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/75/l_98a4a18afd1b2b3fefca6a372525cf9b.jpg

The bad coloring mostly pertains to the Female who has what I have heard called "stress smudges" along the back and sides. The male I'm not as worried about, as he's just very pale. The female NEVER colors properly always "smudged", the male colors when he is hiding (he comes out colored), and rarely when he feeds.

[pinkertd]

They are a shy fish, but I have never heard of stress smudges on them. What temp is your tank kept at?

[spudjnr123]

82-84 F

I brought the question of the coloration up on a thread earlier on Cichlid-Forum, it might answer some questions:
Need some help/ info on my Blue Rams (http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=156807&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0)

Someone used the two in conjunction on one of these forums. Basically, it's those black markings on the dorsal and sides of the female.

[pinkertd]

I absolutely disagree with this statement from experience: Soft water is very important for coloration. The absolute best coloration will be seen when they are choosing mates and breeding. I always kept several males and females and let them pick their own mates. Farm raised asian rams are hormoned and will fade. You have only two, that does not mean they will pair up. When I put a male who had lost his mate together in a tank with a female that had lost her mate....they didn't like each other. I thought they would pair up since there were no other mate choices available, but that's not what happened. And they also lost the brilliant color they both once exhibited. Once you have a successful pairing, their brilliant color seems to stay.

[DisgruntledUser]

i read the post about gh 10 and kh 5, is that number of drops for the test to change color? You may also do a gh and kh test on your tap water to see where it stands. My tap water ph is 7 and takes 2 drops for gh and kh to change color, which I believe is pretty soft.

[spudjnr123]

Alright, I'll leave the water alone, won't do any changes to it.. I know about the pair deal, I was just hoping that they would work out. Anyways, thanks for your help.

[DisgruntledUser]

if your water is hard, using reverse osmosis or distilled water, mixed with your tap water should soften it I believe.

[2weasel2]

What I do to lower my pH when changing water is just got some 'pH Buffer' from my lfs and add the rough ammount which I know gets it down to about 6.4 (for my discus). I do however have test it is right before it goes into the aquarium. For some reason though when I test the whole 65Litres (17 gallon) in my tank it is 6.6... (my kH is 1... does this change it ???)