do i have a pair of socolofi?

[AquariumNoob13]

last night i heard gravel moving around so i turned on the light to my aquarium and my 2 socolofi were backing into each other so that their anal fins were touching (this was taking place in a little hole in the gravel that they seemed to have dug) but when when they noticed the light was on their scattered, but later that night i heard the same noise, but this time instead of turning on the light i just left them alone. is this normal behavior for a male/female pair?

[nycsicktank]

yea.. they are mating

[AquariumNoob13]

really? that is awesome! how will i be able to tell when the female has eggs? like are the eggs noticable in her mouth? and once she does have the eggs in her mouth, i do not have anywhere to put her. like i do not have any smaller tank where she can be alone. would a fry net work sufficiently?

[AquariumNoob13]

what are your opinions?

[nycsicktank]

Breeding: Mouth-brooder. The species may become very aggressive while spawning. The female will brood for approximately 3 weeks and gives birth too up too 60 fry. You can tell if a female is brooding by her enlarged mouth and the fact that she isn’t eating. The female cares for the fry 2 weeks after they first leave her mouth. Fry accepts most kinds of food. Brooding females can be isolated for more productive breeding. It is recommendable to try to make the isolation as short as possible to avoid that the females loses their social status which may cause fights once they are returned. Stress might cause the females to eat eggs and fry. Some fry may survive in a community tank.

[AquariumNoob13]

so are the eggs not very noticable then? she hasn't eaten all day so i think there is a chance that she is holding eggs, because her mouth is bigger and she keeps "sticking it out" every few minutes. plus she has been hiding in a cave all day and won't come out unless the male is near.

[tarheels910]

African cichlids do not form pairs. A male will breed with a female that he finds attractive.

If they dug a pit, and arent fighting, then they could possibly be breeding. If there is only one female, then she could get picked on by the male. Youll know if you find a mouthful of eggs soon.

[tarheels910]

Breeding: Mouth-brooder. The species may become very aggressive while spawning. The female will brood for approximately 3 weeks and gives birth too up too 60 fry. You can tell if a female is brooding by her enlarged mouth and the fact that she isn’t eating. The female cares for the fry 2 weeks after they first leave her mouth. Fry accepts most kinds of food. Brooding females can be isolated for more productive breeding. It is recommendable to try to make the isolation as short as possible to avoid that the females loses their social status which may cause fights once they are returned. Stress might cause the females to eat eggs and fry. Some fry may survive in a community tank.

Nice copy.

Leave the female in the tank for about 3 weeks unless she is getting picked on. Not true about the females taking care of the babies. The mother will eat them also after a little time.

The fry should be raised in a 10 gallon or larger. They can be fed finely crushed cichlid flakes or brine shimp. Good luck with the babies.

[kay-bee]

...my 2 socolofi were backing into each other so that their anal fins were touching (this was taking place in a little hole in the gravel that they seemed to have dug)...

Most of the spawning events I've seen with mbuna's involves the two swimming in a circle, sort of like a dance. At one particular point the male will shake and display his anal fin (typically ardorned with egg spots to intice the female to release her eggs). They'll circle again and the female will deposit the eggs, they'll circle again and the male will fertilize the eggs (which will be on the substrate), they'll circle again and the female with gather up the eggs and the process will repeat until dozens of eggs are collected or something interrupts them. At the conclusion she'll have a mouthful of eggs:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a259/y2kenny19/African%20cichlids%202007/01_next_generation.jpg

Fry are typically released within 18-21 days.

You have a "pair" of socolofi in the sense that you have two of them. If you had several other females in the tank the male would attempt to spawn with any and all of them.

[Coler]

^ yup they're harem keepers as opposed to pair forming - good luck with the fry though !

[AquariumNoob13]

wen i said i had a "pair" i meant 1 male and 1 female (or so it looks like from the events that have taken place) the female is not getting picked on because the male only stays in the territory he owns and leaves her alone in her territory. should i put the female in the 10 gallon before the eggs hatch or just put the already hatched fry in it?

[kay-bee]

It would be easier to catch the female and move her to the 10gal prior to her spitting the fry than to try and collect all the fry once they've already been released (you'd pretty much have to remove every object they could hid in or under or behind.) Once their cover is gone, they become easy pickings for your net (and the other fish in the tank).

[AquariumNoob13]

well since she has only had the eggs in her mouth for 1 day, how long would u say i have before she spits them out to get my 10 gallon free of other fish?

[kay-bee]

If they were properly fertilized, expect fry within 18-21 (it can be a few days earlier or a couple of weeks later, depending on variables). If the eggs weren't properly fertilized she'll eat them or reject them by day 4. If she's still mouthbrooding after that, then fry are on the way.

(note: Inexperienced mouthbrooders may initially consume some of (or even all) the eggs/fry until they get the hang of it, even if properly fertilized.)

You could move her to the new tank as early as day 10-14. I personally feel that keeping the mother in the tank after day 14 introduces risk of her releasing them in the main tank (because I've had mouthbrooders release fry as early as day 14 on a number of occasions).

The next step would be: what to do with all those fry! :)

[AquariumNoob13]

alright. well i am almost positive that she is carrying eggs now. she is not eating, she is way more agressive than usual, she won't eat, her mouth is much bigger than usual, and she never closes her mouth completely. would the fry be able to survive in a comunity tank with tiger barbs or rainbow/neon tetras? or is it better if i just completely leave them in their own 10 gallon setup?

[AquariumNoob13]

The next step would be: what to do with all those fry! :)

what should i do with all the fry? i mean i will keep a few to add to my 75 gallon when they are big enough, but if she releases 60 fry! dang! is it legal to have a fish hatchery and sell the fry when they are bigger? i know people that would love to get some african cichlids, but don't want to pay the store price 'cause they are so cheap and they think the prices are outrageously high. i could also set up just a socolofi tank with a few of them right? like if i kept 3 or 4 of them to add to my soon-to-be-empty 29 gal. i do love these fish. ^_^ well we will see now won't we?

[kay-bee]

You could sell or give them to your friends as well as sell or trade them at an LFS or other hobbyists (even on this site in the classifieds forum).

She may not produce 60 fry in one batch, but mbuna are very prolific and she could regularly produce smaller batches (15-40 fry) every 1.5 to 3 months.

I personally think a 29gal is too small to successfully keep this species long term. It would work for a while as they grow out (fry>juvie>sub-adult) but a fully matured (5"-6") male socolofi in a 29gal might be too much. You could use the 29 to keep the fish you intend to sell or trade off (selling size would be when they're about 2", give or take).

I imagine a tiger barb might make a meal out of a new socolofi (which are less than 1cm in size when 'released').

[AquariumNoob13]

that is a really good idea. and i could also use craigslist to sell them too. ^_^ how much do you think the fry would go for? and even if they do produce in small batches, i am in no hurry at all. i'm just super excited because i have had these fish since they were less than an inch and now they are like 4-6" (female probably 4") i feel like for once in my life i am truely happy with a hobby. hahaha. =) (it sounds pathetic but it is true)

would i be able to raise a few of the fry in a 5 gallon bucket? (assuming that i am not able to return the american cichlids in the 10 gallon aquarium) and what about goldfish? my bio teacher has a goldfish 10 gallon aquarium with some goldfish fry in it that has been very prosperous. (except i would have to feed my socolofi fry goldfish flakes and that isn't a good idea right?)