Best Substrate?

[ltj2489]

Hey Everyone -

Converting my FO tank to a reef tank w/LR and I am wondering what the best substrate to use is - I currently have about 2.5 inches of crushed coral. I have heard CC is not ideal because the pieces are so large that they create gaps for waste to collect.

I was thinking of going to a more fine aragonite. Any recommendations in regards to what type and where to buy? Could I / should I mix the aragonite with some of my CC and dispose of the rest?

Thx!

[VoodooChild]

Just go out to your local Home Depot or the like and get some fine sand. Aragonite works best, but silica works just fine too. Just make sure it's very fine. You can add a bit of the CC, maybe for buffering, but I'd just use a think layer, otherwise the sand will eventually sift through to the bottom.

[Ray Pollett]

Originally posted by ltj2489
Hey Everyone -

Converting my FO tank to a reef tank w/LR and I am wondering what the best substrate to use is - I currently have about 2.5 inches of crushed coral. I have heard CC is not ideal because the pieces are so large that they create gaps for waste to collect.

I was thinking of going to a more fine aragonite. Any recommendations in regards to what type and where to buy? Could I / should I mix the aragonite with some of my CC and dispose of the rest?

Thx!

It depends on how you plan to filter the tank. What do you want to keep in the reef?

Most people including myself think a DSB is best with lots of detrivores in it. But other ways do work.

Yes you could mix so of the CC in to the sand, but keep it to 10% or less of total volume and mix it in.

Ray

[latazyo]

throw the cc away, get the sand, be happy, enjoy the reef

[gcvt]

If you're going for a deep sand bed and can find Southdown or OldKastle sand at Home Depot/Lowes, that would be ideal. I couldn't find this sand on the left coast so I went with silica-based sandblasting sand...works perfectly well.

[125gJoe]

Why has no one mentioned "live sand"?

My wife has a mini reef set-up and she has researched that "live sand" and "live rock" is the best substrate.

[VoodooChild]

Live sand is great, just not necessary in such a quanity to cover the whole tank. Good idea though. After you do get a sand bed set up, 2-3 lbs of live sand to get fauna into the sand is the way to go. After awhile and everything spreads and breeds you wouldn't even be able to tell the difference in which sand was "live" and which wasn't.

[Ray Pollett]

Originally posted by 80gJoe
Why has no one mentioned "live sand"?

My wife has a mini reef set-up and she has researched that "live sand" and "live rock" is the best substrate.

Maybe we should clearify here a little. We are talking about making a live Sand Bed. We are not talking about just the bacteria. We use the sand from Lowe's or Home Depot to make a 4 - 6 inch sand bed called a deep sand bed (DSB). We then add a small amount of live sand( sand that has all kinds of live forms in it) to the DSB. We try to use some from multiple places. We also add the Detrivore kits from places like Indo-Pacific Sea Farms and Inland Aquatics. This gives us a more diversified group of life in the DSB and is called live sand at that point.

Ray

[ecr111]

Hi Ray,

Do you add the live sand at the begnning of the cycle or after it's over?

Thanks,

clay

[Ray Pollett]

Hi Clay,

I usually add the live sand after the cycle If I buy it. At the same time as the detrivores. If it is the live sand from a tank were I can get more, I add it when I first set up the tank to help speed up the cycle.

Ray

[ecr111]

Thanks Ray,

I live in near Orlando, so I can go to the E coast in about an hour and the W coast in about 2.5 H. So I will get sand from both coasts.
I'm wondering though... the E coast sand is tan, while the W coast sand is almost as white as the play sand... how will that look when mixed with (really) white play sand?

As I have seen here, the more diversity the better ( am I PC or what?)

I've done this before with an undergravel (20 yrs ago) .

When I took the UG (55G) apart I had a 10 inch worm under it!
This UG tank also had copepods all over the place.

I had to take it down when I moved and it didn't do as well in the second incarnation. Probably from the new (human) family.

I've been keeping a 20g all-in-one tank for a few years and am ready to set up the 120g (48x24x24) again, which was a wet/dry sump reef and was too much work.

I'm doing a sumpless DSB this time.
BTW, I've found most of the info on a DSB on this forum

I'm going with 250lbs of play sand and 150 lbs of dead base rock to start.
Cycle the tank (adding some live sand from the coasts and the 20) and then add 100-150 lbs of live rock.

Later i wiil move a royal gramma, a maroon clown and a 5 inch brown anemone, a spotted hawk(?), some gorgonia, mushrooms, ricordia and assorted rock from the 20g.

I am going to do something different with the 20 but I don't know what yet.

Any advice from anyone welcome.

Regards,

Clay

[Ray Pollett]

Clay,

Sounds good to me so far. Do not forget the detrivores and clean up crew after the cycle but 3-4 weeks before the fish. It will pay dividends down the road.

Best Wishes,
Ray

[ecr111]

Ray,

I've been thinkng a lot about the detrivores. I think I want to have a lot of sand stirers.
Do you have any sugestions?

Do you know of any purchasable small sand movers other than a cucumber?
on that.. is there a small cuc that will do in a 120g

I think I got a lot of 'em , burrowing snails, worm and copepods, when I got a few buckets of sand from Cocoa beach when I had the UG 55 g.

Then I got about 5 g from the W FL coast for the 20.

I still haven't seen the copepods from this sand as I did years ago.

I'm thinking about getting as much beach sand as I can carry,
and substitue the live for the play.

On another note- do you have any comment on the subject of DSBs failing after a few years?
I have been seeing some negative news on the net , but no research.

Clay

[Ray Pollett]

Originally posted by ecr111
Ray,

I've been thinkng a lot about the detrivores. I think I want to have a lot of sand stirers.
Do you have any sugestions?

I use pistol shrimp, sand sifting gobies and cucumbers. I get the pistol shrimp and cucumbers from www.tampabaysaltwater.com

Do you know of any purchasable small sand movers other than a cucumber?
on that.. is there a small cuc that will do in a 120g

I would use 2 to 4 Atlantic Cucs and 2 to 4 pistol shrimp. they do a good job.

I think I got a lot of 'em , burrowing snails, worm and copepods, when I got a few buckets of sand from Cocoa beach when I had the UG 55 g.

That is good.

Then I got about 5 g from the W FL coast for the 20.

I still haven't seen the copepods from this sand as I did years ago.

Pods you can get from www.IPSF.com or www.inlandaquatics.com

I'm thinking about getting as much beach sand as I can carry,
and substitue the live for the play.

On another note- do you have any comment on the subject of DSBs failing after a few years?
I have been seeing some negative news on the net , but no research.

]I do not buy it. I know of tanks running for years with them. One for over 16 years. The person who started the questions used to be a big pusher of the DSB method. One day he came up with in his mind why the will fail; My personal opinion is he did not think very clearly that day. I will not set up a new tank without one.

Ray

[ecr111]

Ray,

Thanks for the info

The IPFS looks great. How do they do shipping to to FL, seems like long way.

I have been thinking about Tampa bay and will probably get my cucs and shrimp there.

I have been looking at http://www.reeferrocks.com/index.htm for base and live rock,
Do you know them?

I am in Orlando so can drive to both of them.

Clay

[Ray Pollett]

Clay

I've never used reeferrocks, but have seen post by others who have been happy with them.

Ray

[BrianH]

ecr,

I've used gulf-view (http://www.gulf-view.com) and was very happy with the rock, the service(was outstanding) and the price.

Brian

[Ray Pollett]

Clay,

"The IPFS looks great. How do they do shipping to to FL, seems like long way"

They ship Overnight to me on the west Coast. I believe people tell me it takes 2 days to get to the east coast, but they arrive fine.

Ray