Cycling 44 gal pentagon

[tmace64]

The reading here has been great. I already have to say thanks to everyone here, learned a lot over the past 2 hours!!

I want to achieve a simple community tank with some live rock and easy to maintain corals and inverts.

Nearly 5 weeks into cycling up a 44 gal pentagon
-- Thanks to a set of beautiful damsels, 2 blues, 2 stripes and 2 dominos. Losses - unfortunately, I lost 2 fish thus far, one was returned, and thus have 3 damsels currently.

3 to 4 inches of live bio sand, around 40 to 50lbs of various rock

wet dry filtration,,, rinsing media every 5 days or so,,,,

skimmer, just recently re-started,,,,, wasnt running it for a faster cycle. I've heard a mixture of advice as to run a skimmer during cycling. Should I be running it?

Ammonias and nitrites have risen and continue to do so, nitrates arent quite showing yet.

I feel feeding is going very well, the damsels are very aggressive eaters, and i manage to feed with little gone uneaten.

:confused: CLOUDY WATER. Its been cloudy for 3 days now and has continued to increase over the three days. Should I perform a water change? More media rinsing? Chemical assistance? Is something seriously wrong?
- Fish thus far appear healthy. I know there is no real debris or decaying matter on tank floor. I've been testing the water almost every day and to my knowledge,,,, cycling appears to be happening normally.

Is there a true defining moment signaled by ammonias and nitrites that the cycle is complete?? Ive heard mixed reviews here too......

Lighting standard flourescent fixture - for now - with a MH pendant, 175 watt, 10K German bulb waiting for cycle to complete. I've had the MH on several days and --NO NO it can't be!!! Evaporation?? NO NO it must be the salt water fairy, coming to take water out every night while we all sleep!!! I swear I've seen her soggy salty footprints in my carpet!!!
:confused:I've wondered whether this light caused evaporation and replenishment has disrupted the cycling --??

Sound okay or doomed for disaster?? Thank you so much for your time!

Tod

[kreblak]

Welcome to the salty side! Now if I might address your questions.

The cloudy water is caused by a bacteria bloom, which is necessary to get your cycling underway. The first bloom is the bacteria that process ammonia into nitrites. A second bloom will occur later. That is the bacteria that convert nitrites into nitrates. It will go away on its own in a few days.

I did not run a skimmer during cycling. I began skimming after the cycle was complete and after I performed the first water change. I don't think skimming should affect your cycle shoud you choose to start now, though.

Evaporation is a fact of life with an aquarium. The light may be speeding up the evaporation process, but topping off the tank with fresh water to replace evaporated water will not interfere with cycling.

Finally, you asked about the defining moment when when the cycle is complete. When ammonia and nitrites are zero, your cycle is complete. It should take between 4 to 9 weeks for a complete cycle.

[tmace64]

Thanks so much for your time and knowledge!! Someday, I too hope to chat with new aquariasts and pass on my knowledge as well.

For now, I will remain in the question generation department if i may.

Into 5th week cycling out a 44 gal pentagon. Ammonia and Nitrites still peaking. No nitrates yet. Cloudy Tank has cleared - it is so very clear!! - Crystal clear like none other, it has a beauty, like looking into the most beautiful diamond. Lots of substrate algae growth - Mostly Diatoms and only one patch of that stringy brown algae on sand and rocks. One damsel has claimed an entire corner and is feeding regularly.

:confused: --Should I begin to clean this algae up? Sweep / vaccume the sand? Can one "over-clean" a tank during cycling and or at any time???

:confused: --Can live rock and their inhabitants - inverts, corals be added to a tank simultaneously?

:confused: Cycle still isnt complete.... Can I add just live rock and aquascape my tank at this time? I have 3 damsels, should I move them with aquarium water to a side tank with powerhead, and when finished,,, move the fish AND the water back to the aquarium? Should stress guard be used?

:confused: --Can live plants be added at this time? Any suggestions?

:confused: --I know I want to have a clown-(Percula) anemonae relationship. How soon after cycle completion can either be added? Can they be added simultaniously?


:confused: Upon adding just a clown and anemonae to a 44 gal pentagon with 3 damsels, wet dry & skimer, should I expect severe chemical changes?


Thank you for your time and knowledge!
Tod

[kreblak]

All right, first things first: DO NOT add live rock while the cycle is unfinished! Inverts, including corals, hermits, snails, etc are all very sensitive to ammonia and nitrites. If you add the LR while levels are still readable then you will kill off a lot of the beneficial life.

I added my LR two weeks after the cycle was complete. I didn't move the fish, I just let them hang out in the corner of the tank while I stacked the rock. They were a little tweaked, but after I was done they immersed themselves in the new caves and hiding places they had been afforded. It was really neat to watch everyone pick out their own new territories over the next few days.

As far as adding a clown and an anemone right now, that is a bad idea. Ammonia and nitrites will kill an anemone fast. They won't be good for the clown, either. Wait until your cycle is complete before adding anything else to the tank.

It is important to note at this time, however, that because you are cycling with damsels you are going to have an interesting situation when your cycle is complete. Your biofilter will grow in proportion to how much ammonia is being introduced into the water. If you have three damsels, then when the cycle is complete you will have a biofilter capable of handling three damsels. If you add additional fish, the new fish will produce additional ammonia that cannot be immediately processed by your bacteria bed. This will result in a "mini-cycle." As long as you add new fish slowly, and allow your ecosystem to adjust fully before adding more fish, everything should be fine. Just take it slow. Also, the live rock will help to acclimate any new fish, by providing more of a biofilter.

You may clean your substrate as well. Diatoms can get ugly.

Hope that helped, if there's anything else, just ask!

[tmace64]

Thanks so much, all makes complete sense. I don't plan on adding another fish or invert until my cycle is completely over.

I'm becoming more frustrated with my local dealer. I've received conflicting information from them too often now. He wanted me to put LR in my tank over 2 weeks ago! I am now more frustrated that I have to drive 30 mins to another town and store for local purchases and trusted, honest help and information.
--Back when I started my tank, they gave me no alternative other than using live fish for the cycle. I begged them to provide another way - but no, they've sold me 12 damsels during the whole process, when I could have simply used cocktail shrimp. It's not the money issue, damsels are cheap - its the fact that beautiful live species were put in harm's way simply to cycle of a tank. I will never do it that way again.

Thanks so much for your help. I'll be back around as my cycle completes.

-- I'll post some pictures in a few....

Tod

[kreblak]

Some fish stores are really bad about selling people damsels. They will insist that damsels are tough enough to take the bad water quality, and when they start dropping the LFS tells you something you are doing is wrong. My LFS is one of those places, and I went through 14 damsels before I discovered these boards and the fishless method. Usually places like that are also bad about hygiene, and Ich seems rampant from evey fish they sell.

I guess they would rather sell someone 10 damsels at $4.99 a pop than do it right and make a customer for life.

BTW, the reason that your LFS propably told you to add the live rock two weeks ago was to speed up the cycling time. Adding the live rock will speed things along, due to the bacterial bed already living on the rock, but the ammonia and nitrites will kill any beneficial hitchhikers. So, in reality, your LFS wasn't completely wrong, they just failed to ask the proper questions. If the hitchhikers mean nothing to you (some poeple don't care to have them in the first place) then by all means add the live rock and shorten your cycle. I am operating under the assumption that you want the hitchhikers. I got some stoney worms, several feather dusters, and some good corraline algae on my rock, and I am glad that they are part of the ecosystem now. Just my humble opinion. ;)

[tmace64]

YES YES, I want a natural LR with hitchhikers. I've read that some bad inhabitants can come with LR as well......

My goal now will be to do this as naturally as possible without the expense of any other life. Is there anything else I can do to make sure the remaining damsels keep their health and life? Currently they look healthy. Of the three, 2 blue yellow tales, one COMPLETELY dominates the other - its growing, the other remains the same size, and displays pale coloring when engaging the dominant. The third - a black and white 4 stripe, appears completely healthy - physically -- doesnt eat at all and hides a lot.........



:confused: Should I shut down my skimmer to speed up the cycle process?? Which would be easier on the 3 damsels?

Tod

[kreblak]

The pictures look pretty good. I've never seen a pentagon tank like than before. I like it. The pictured damsel looks nice and robust. He should be fine. As for the other yellowtail, dominance does occur with damsels. The four stripe should start eating eventually, but if he doesn't, make sure that he isn't sick. I would continue skimming, as that will help keep your nitrates down.

[tmace64]

:confused: Whats the best way to sweep up or remove the algae groth on the sand and rocks? I'm thinking that I can't use a siphon sweeper so's not to remove water and replace it,,,, or should I?

thanks
tod

[kreblak]

On the sand, you can just rake it with a tool until the algae covered sand is covered by clean sand from underneath. With the rock, I would wait until you are done cycling, and then get some turbo snails. They mow down brown algae like Fat Albert at Golden Corrall.