Ulvaceous leaves browning

[TomFromStLouis]

I don't think my Ulvaceous is trying to go dormant because it keeps sending up new leaves and flowers. But just about the time the new leaf gets to the top of my tank it fades to a blotchy brownish tan. The last part of the leaf to turn is the core stem and the outer edge of the leaf.

I keep NO3 between 5 and 10, PO4 barely registers. I regularly dose KCl and Flourish (1 ml twice per week) and Flourish Iron (1 capful twice per week) in my 75g tank. 3wpg. Co2 around 15-20ppm. pH 6.7

This began about a week after introducing the Ulvaceous. I am beginning to think that 1 - there is some kind of allepathy (sp?) negative chemical interaction thing going on*, or 2 - I need to fertilize at the root. Is Ulavaceous a heavy root feeder?

* The Hydrocotyle leucocephala has been growing very fast and was introduced the same time. The Micranthemum Micranthemoides has all but died off too, perhaps a chemical victim too? Another Aponogeton Unknown is doing beautifully. Any suggestions welcome.

[djlen]

Tom, check out this site and see if anything looks familiar.
Len

[TomFromStLouis]

Was there something else you wanted to say Len? Like maybe a link?

[djlen]

I told you I was old.............sorry.
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm
Len

[TomFromStLouis]

Thanks old man. I have seen that before and the closest deficiency that describes my situation is the nitrogen deficiency symptoms. But THAT cannot be the problem since I monitor NO3 fairly closely and am always above 5ppm. I have a fairly heavy fishload too, so I am inclined to think I have one of those allelopathic (spelling correct this time) chemical things going on, which would be too bad since it means something I have in there keeps the awesome Ulvaceous from being its best and I do not know which plant is responsible. Some of what I have in there I would be willing to sacrifice for a healthy Ulvaceous, some I would not.

Any Ulvaceous growers out there have the same problem? If so, which plants from the list below do you also have in the tank? Maybe we can figure this out. Or, if you SUCCESFULLY grow Ulvaceous in your tank, which of the below is also in there that we can eliminate as the culprit killer?

Crypt Wendetii
Riccia
Xmas Moss
Lysimachia 'Aurea"
hairgrass
Glosso
Crinum Calistratum
Crypt 'Balansae'
Isoetes
Hydrocotyle leucaphala
Hygrophila 'Sunset'
Tiger Lotus (just added, not a likely culprit)
Cabomba Carolina

Yeah, I know, its a crowded jungle. I should have gotten the 180g :)

[TomFromStLouis]

After reading at the ever useful Skeptical Aquarist and related links, maybe the problem is temperature. He Who is Wet suggests and Karen Randall confirms (like that order Wetman?) that Ulvaceous prefers slightly cooler temps and mine hovers from 25-28*C. Yet my "The Book of Water Plants" by Simon vander Velde says the range should be 22-28*C. Hmmm...

If this temperature theory is the true problem, it looks like I have just got to install a fan in my hood...

Anyone who still wants to respond to the allelochemical theory is welcome to add to the discussion. I would like to really know what the problem truly is.

[Starry]

Actually, I think it's just nearing dormancy. Lots of leaves and lots of flowers lead to sleepy time. Mine did the same thing. The last flower was still alive when the leaves started yellowing. They started looking more transluscent, see-through almost. It happens pretty quick. If it's a happy plant, it should come back though. Mine gave me offspring in the form of little bulblets off the mother bulb, but the mother bulb didnt't make it.

[TomFromStLouis]

I bought the plant in a fully developed state and have noticed this discoloration for over a month now. Maybe ten new leaves and 4 or 5 flowers since have shot up.

As to the temperature issue, I am completely confused. Baensch rates Ulvaceous up to 28*C and Kasselmann up to 27* (optimum range) and up to 30* maximum. So maybe it is not the temperature thing after all.

Sigh. This plant thing sure can be trying....

This will be my first Aponogeton dormancy. I have read that you should remove the bulb and store it in damp sand for a month or two and replant. I have also read that you can just leave it in the tank. Any preference fro this species?

[djlen]

Dang, I can't believe I didn't think of that. The Dormancy Period.
That Starry's wonderful isn't she?!!?:)
BTW, I've heard that some people leave them for a short period of time and then simply move them and they will come out of dormancy.
Len

[Starry]

Well thank you Len, I try :) I actually thought that everyone else just ruled out dormancy for some reason.

I left my bulb in the tank. Granted, it didn't do all that great, but my instinct is that I'm more likely to kill it if I start messing around with peat and sand and darkness and stuff. As I said, the mother bulb grew two daughter bulbs. These made it, and they resprouted, but never really grew big. They're still hanging in there. I think it's also because they're shaded by larger plants (you can't exactly plop an ulvaceus in the foreground), and because most plants around them are well established. Just my experience....

[TomFromStLouis]

Assuming Starry is right, it was me she overrulued. Although I have never experienced dormancy, I figured it was not the case here because this has been going on for a month or more. If dormancy happens quickly, the jury is stillout. We'll see. I will keep everyone posted.

[wetmanNY]

I hesitate to speak up here, because my own successes with breaking dormancy with this bulb have been spotty, at best. But I wonder if, besides the summer heat and the energy spent in all that flowering, whether "allelopathic" effects aren't actually iron toxicity, TomXSt.L. Iron is a micronutrient. Chelation may be more important than ionic iron doses, I'm convinced.

(Thanks for the compliments! keep 'em coming!)

[anonapersona]

I've got a question. Did you pinch off the flowers and developing seeds or allow that to mature? I know that with some terrestrial bulbs (caladiums, for example) we pinch off the flowers to keep the bulb putting out leaves. When the plant's energy goes into making seed, it has less energy for making leaves.

[TomFromStLouis]

Anon: I have mostly let the flowers hang around for a while. I have noticed no seeds though. It is still shooting up new leaves. I am going to start snipping off the flower stems much sooner because you may have a good point. It seems a little like what tulip bulb leaves do after they finish flowering. With the exception that new green leaves keep appearing. And after getting mottled brown, the leaves hang around mostly alive until I get tired of the way they look.

Wetman: I am dosing Flourish Iron, which I believe is the desirable chelated stuff. Are you suggesting I am dosing too much? That would be hard to believe because I hardly ever get any readings with my Hagen test kit. But maybe the kit is not sensitive enough and the plant IS sensitive. Substrate is maybe 40% Flourite too.

[TomFromStLouis]

I think I have figured it out. Red algae. My lysimachia also gets algae on the leaves that makes them look brownish but it scrapes off with some effort. Unfortunately the Ulvaceous leaves are too delicate for the same treatment, which is a pain to administer anyway. I will start a new thread about this scourge.