DIY co2 how much?

[FtwayneFish]

Ive read all about the DIY co2 withe 2l pop bottles and various ways to introduce it via a DIY reactor or a store one, or in the filter intake, or air stone at the bottom.

But i havnt read about the amount. just hook up 2 2L's for a 55 gal mod planted and mod stocked and let it go and youl b ok. i dont wanna wake up with my fish floating. i dont have the test equip for the water params tho. i just wing it and stay on top of bio load and carbon replacement and water changes (thankyou santa for my python!!!) but is there a bubble number someone can give me? or is 2 of em safe enough.

would 1 2L at just full throttle (line in the tank with a stone) be even safer to wing it? how much does one 2l do? like half a 5 pound real co2 setup or something.

I read too that it really doest do that much (the DIY yeast mix) its pretty weak unless its a 5 gal or something.

Cant you just not add co2 and the plants just take a bit longer to grow and fill out? the only reason for extra co2 is the plants right? heck slower growing means less trimming and etc.

so do i just needs to buy the test equip? and do the co2 and watch it? ive never ever lol bought test equip cause i fig as anal as i am that if something was a bit outta whack i be spending more money or correctors and etc.

[jmhart]

To answer your question in no specific order:

The amount of CO2 you need(or if you need CO2 at all) depends on what kind of plants you are trying to grow as well as what lighting you have over your tank. With a low light setup(>1wpg) you probably don't need CO2. But, with >1wpg and no CO2 your plant choices are, well, a little limited(plenty of low light plants, but you're limited in that you can't grow anything you want). If you have a lot of light in your tank, without co2, you will have a lot of algae.

About DIY CO2. I currently run 3 2L bottles of DIY CO2 on a 30g tank. It produces a nice amount of CO2. It the morning when I wake up(lights off all night, plants not using CO2), my CO2 level is a little over 30ppm(15-30ppm is desired), but at the end of the day, I'm closer to 15 ppm. This means that I'm getting enough CO2. However, the fluctuation is the key problem with DIY CO2. I suffer from a slight algae problem since I'm not maintaining a certain level all day.

Point is, 2 2L will be fine with yoru 55g, it might even not be enough. I understand about not wanting to test, but, you can buy a co2 drop checker off of ebay for $16/including shipping, and it'll keep you informed about your co2 levels if you are concerned.

[FtwayneFish]

omg thankyou lol some answers. ok sir how do you introduce your co2? airstone at the end ok? and if i run 2 2L with my single bulb i think its 15w but its a new floresent plant bulb i think the package says like 15,000. which i dont get. but its a perfect-o hood and i wanna get another lamp too. theres another spot on the lid. but so 15w with either 1 2L on all the time or should i do 2 and turn them off at night? to be ultra safe without a co2 checker? i have java moss, jungle vail- 1 bunch, form of combodia- darker green tho and grows tall qucik in 2 months ive had to pinch and replant twice- 1 bunch, and a japanese moss ball, floating hornwort- 1 bunch, moneywort- 1 bunch, and some kind of grass like plant that branches- 1 bunch, and water wisteria- 1 bunch half ft.

[jmhart]

With the low light, you'll be ok for sure with DIY CO2. For more information about lighting, check out www.rexgrigg.com or search through these forums.

I diffuse my co2 into the tank via a Hagen Ladder (http://img451.imageshack.us/img451/2656/hagenladder4gp.jpg)

A simple airstone ~can work, but it doesn't quite transfer the co2 into the water as effectively as can be done. Search co2 diffusion in this forum. There are various ways people have used to diffuse co2 including an airstone, the ladder, a bell type diffuser, and a DIY reactor made out of a gravel vac and old powerhead.

The DIY Reactor is the best I'd say, the only reason I don't use it is cause it's a little bulky, and in a 30g it would take up too much space. If you have an old powerhead lying around and an extra gravel vac, his would be the best way to go. Simply search this forum for info on how to build it as well as other info about co2 diffusion

[FtwayneFish]

so on the ladder. do you count the bubbles or dont have to? and isnt that unit just for counting? i thought the bubbles race thru and pop up on the surface and escape right? so if i have no drop checker and use a airstone by the filter intake or exhaust? should i run 1 or 2 2L and on at day and off at night? i thankyou so much for your and anyones help.

wow 110 watts for my 55 gal. dang how am i gonna pack that? so if i have my 15w and maybe another 15w then would co2 even b worth it for the single or double bulb? i dont know much about growin plants i appologize. all this info is prolly on some page im seeing. and i read alot b4 i started my first forum here but everyones writing is for there setup for doing it a certain way tho.

since i guess? my lighting is below par would co2 even make a diff? low light no algae and co2 for bushy plants a dream world?

[jmhart]

I can't make the call on the low light + co2. I can say you're fine w/o it. It might do something, but I really can't say.

The ladder prolongs the exposure time of the co2 bubbles. It slows down how fast the rise to the surface, allowing more co2 to get into the water. It also works as a bubble counter. An airstone used in the filter intake would be good, about the same thing as the DIY reactor. This can work with an HOB filter, but works even better with a cannister filter. If you have a cannister filter, this is for sure what you should do(airstone into/by the intake).

Here's the situation with turning on/off your DIY co2. It is not bad for your plants to be exposed to CO2 at night, they just don't use it. In fact, plants will convert co2 into malic acid at night, storing it for use the next day, so if anything, it's good for them. However, it's not that much better for them than turning off the co2 at night. The bottom line is, leaving your co2 on at night wastes co2. Now, for a pressurized co2 system(i.e. out of a gas cylinder) you can just stop the co2 and it's just cut off, no problem, saves money.

With DIY CO2, when you "turn off" the 2L bottles, the yeast keep producing, and the pressure just builds inside your bottles. People will say this is "dangerous." It's not. As long as your aren't using glass bottles(average glass can withstand up to 5 psig of pressure, i.e. not a lot) you won't build enough pressure in a single night to bust your plastic 2L bottles. However, what happens is, the next day, when you "turn on" your co2, it doesn't just trickle out, it "explodes" out, sending all that co2 up to the surface where it is wasted.

On top of that, because you turned off your co2, now your co2 level in the tank is very low(co2 in tank been diffusing out at the surface all night), so it has to build back up to a useful level.

Point is, with DIY CO2, better to leave it on at night.

[Bk718]

ftwayne thanks for making this thread, since i had the same questions..

jmarht Thanks for all those great answers..


If there was Karma on this forum you would get a ++++++++++


:headbang2::headbang2::headbang2:

[FtwayneFish]

your welcome lol. more thanks to jeff. so i understand the call on if it will work for me. but co2 should be used if u have the light to match it right? otherwise it prolly wouldnt work? wish someone else has tried this. all of us have more than one tank lol. but so im thinking one 2L on at all times for my 55 gal with 1 15w bulb and see how it goes and hopefully it doesnt hurt anything and maybe bushes my plants a bit more?

whats with this pearling that looks sooo nice. lol thanks takashi amano you gave the the aquascape bug. there is alot of nice clips of aquascaping contest on youtube. but if a plant pearls its at its zen? so to zen then i would need all the requirments?

and with the exploding co2 in the morn at time of turn on. couldnt you use maybe a gang valve and slowly open it? i havnt done the project yet and maybe just doing it will answer alot of my ?'s.

you can see my stocking list at bottom is that enough fish co2? and would dang ferts be better? with my 15 measly watts.

thankyou anyone who can help.

[Bk718]

Found a simple diy reactor on youtube.. now im pondering on whether i should try a ceramic type of bell reactor or the powerhead..

LINK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip6qXa0RteU&feature=related)

and heres another

Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4cTyXU3pT0)

[Mgamer20o0]

your welcome lol. more thanks to jeff. so i understand the call on if it will work for me. but co2 should be used if u have the light to match it right? otherwise it prolly wouldnt work? wish someone else has tried this. all of us have more than one tank lol. but so im thinking one 2L on at all times for my 55 gal with 1 15w bulb and see how it goes and hopefully it doesnt hurt anything and maybe bushes my plants a bit more?

whats with this pearling that looks sooo nice. lol thanks takashi amano you gave the the aquascape bug. there is alot of nice clips of aquascaping contest on youtube. but if a plant pearls its at its zen? so to zen then i would need all the requirments?

and with the exploding co2 in the morn at time of turn on. couldnt you use maybe a gang valve and slowly open it? i havnt done the project yet and maybe just doing it will answer alot of my ?'s.

you can see my stocking list at bottom is that enough fish co2? and would dang ferts be better? with my 15 measly watts.

thankyou anyone who can help.

you cant pack in the amount of fish that will get you to the co2 levels your looking for.

look at ahsupply.com for some upgraded lighting. 15w over a 55g isnt much at all. i would look at the 2x55w bright kit.

oding co2 is very hard. with diy extremely hard. when you od on co2 the co2 pushes the o2 out of the water. the fish then cant breath. diy really isnt that helpful over 20-30 gal. you will end up spending more money and time switching out of the bottles. think 4-6 2l bottles.

on your tank there is no need for co2 or ferts. look to get more and better lighting first.

ps the ladder is only good for smaller tanks. 10-20 gal

[Bk718]

you cant pack in the amount of fish that will get you to the co2 levels your looking for.

look at ahsupply.com for some upgraded lighting. 15w over a 55g isnt much at all. i would look at the 2x55w bright kit.

oding co2 is very hard. with diy extremely hard. when you od on co2 the co2 pushes the o2 out of the water. the fish then cant breath. diy really isnt that helpful over 20-30 gal. you will end up spending more money and time switching out of the bottles. think 4-6 2l bottles.

on your tank there is no need for co2 or ferts. look to get more and better lighting first.

ps the ladder is only good for smaller tanks. 10-20 gal

i got a question.. whats the best way to diffuse the co2 in the tank with the diy setup.. the ceramic diffuser / ladder or powerhead? (this is for a 10g tank) some people have said that the diy setup does not build enough pressure for the bubbles to go through the ceramic..
(Since its more of a diy project i would more or less want to use a powerhead i have laying around and build a diffuser out of that)

[Mgamer20o0]

if you have a power head use it. one of the better ways to do it.

[jmhart]

i got a question.. whats the best way to diffuse the co2 in the tank with the diy setup.. the ceramic diffuser / ladder or powerhead? (this is for a 10g tank) some people have said that the diy setup does not build enough pressure for the bubbles to go through the ceramic..
(Since its more of a diy project i would more or less want to use a powerhead i have laying around and build a diffuser out of that)


For sure a powerhead is the way to go(I'm assuming you aren't using a cannister filter). As I mentioned, many people will run their co2 into the intake of their canister filter. If no cannister, powerhead is the way to go for sure.

[FtwayneFish]

I guess i forgot to mention its a 55gal hex? does that make a diff at all on lighting and whatnot? since its not a long style and has less a foot print
?
ok so maybe ill scratch the 55gal on co2 till i get the extra lighting and see how it goes.

But ive read and read here that it works better on smaller tanks. so i have a 10 gal lightly planted and just like tinkering with something i suppose. and thought it would go better with my mod planted 55 gal.

But what size container for a 10 gal, if i plan to do the porject i will plant it more obvioulsy. it too only has a 15w. which i read is just barely enough.

[jmhart]

I see you have a crayfish in your 10g. I've read(I've never had any myself...but want some one day) that they can cause issues with planted tanks. Apparently they will dig up and cut your plants in order to provide cover at the top of the tank. Just what I've read, don't know if it's really true.

Also, check out www.rexgrigg.com (http://www.rexgrigg.com) especially the section on lighthing. Read about the minimum light threshold. 15W over the 10g should give you something, but people around here would suggest more.

On the 55g hex, yes this would make a difference. The wpg rule tends to apply using t8 bulbs in standard "long" tanks. It deviates on taller tanks, larger volume tanks, smaller volume tanks....you can see how it's really more of a wpg "guideline" than a wpg "rule".

search "10g DIY CO2" I'm sure you'll find some more answers, but I think a 1L soda bottle would work pretty well for your tank. It's not so much the volume of the bottle, but the surface area of the liquid inside the bottle that limits the amount of co2 produced. Look for skinnery bottles.

[Sploke]

15w over a 55 is not enough light that the Co2 will really do the plants any good. CO2 is provided as a carbon supplement for plant growth, and its only needed when the plants have enough light to grow fast enough that they will use up all the available carbon in the water and need to be supplemented to maintain that growth. 15w, especially over a typically taller hex-style tank, won't provide that kind of light.

I use a DIY setup on a 10gal tank with 40w of light. I use a 2L soda bottle. As stated before, it is practically impossible to overdose CO2 with a DIY setup. This is due to the lack of efficient diffuser methods. With a pressurized system, you can get diffusers to create much smaller bubbles for better diffusion. You could dump 3 sachets of yeast into a 2L bottle for an explosive ferment, and using a bubble ladder most of it would bubble off anyway.

[Squawkbert]

1) agreed - CO2 is not the factor limiting plant growth in your tank, lighting is

2) I use 2x4L DIY CO2 in a 46g tank w/ absolutely CO2 proof tubing and very efficient means of dissolving CO2 (very fine airstone into Eheim 2215 intake), almost no surface agitation, and my drop checker is only occasionally fully green - it's usually sort of borderline blue/green, so I'm probably maintaining ~10 or 12ppm. What I'm saying is don't worry, you aren't going to asphyxiate anything in a 55 w/ 1x 2L DIY CO2.

3) Don't bother shutting off DIY CO2. You won't "save" any of it that way.

4) Once you have better lighting, a drop checker is the best CO2 "test equipment" you can have.

[FtwayneFish]

they crayfish "roots" a bit everywhere. in my 5 gal he would dig up the fake plants and hide under the ugly plastic dishes. i had one in each back corner.

but ive always had floating hornwort too.

in the new 10 gal i have a lil rock on the left corner fake plant so he wont up root. and in the right back corner i built a cave he loves. he moved the moss ball around in each tank. and eats/ shreds the java moss in each tank. he leaves the hornwort alone from what i can see. havnt gave him too many plant options i suppose. and ive always had cover.

as with the lighting. ill scratch the 55g till i get more watts. and i might try it with my 10g when i get more plants and swap out the fakes.

[FtwayneFish]

does anyone know what size container that i'd use for a 5g 15w and 10g 15w that....

would last the longest.
wouldnt be too much and kill the fish or shrimp.

does anyone know the mixture ratio for a 20oz pop bottle?

and does anyone have a ballpark wpg for a 55g---- hex?
i know its 110w or 2.2wpg for 55g standards.

[Mgamer20o0]

2 liter will be fine on a 10 gal. look for a 1 liter bottle for the 5 gal. you need to get all your questions together and ask them in one spot. it will help everyone if all the info was together.

[FtwayneFish]

thankyou mgamer2000 im sorry.

does anyone know the mixture ratio for a 20oz pop bottle?

and does anyone have a ballpark wpg for a 55g---- hex?
i know its 110w or 2.2wpg for 55g standards.

[Mgamer20o0]

2 liters is 60oz and 20oz is 1/3 of it. so do everything by 1/3 as google tells me.

[Sploke]

2.5lbs of sugar per gallon so...6.25oz of sugar for a 20 fl. oz. soda bottle..which is about 3/4 cups.

[FtwayneFish]

thanks guys. im think im going to run this.

5g-10w. pop bottle co2. ---> turn airstone on at night? to be positive no over dose
10g-15w. 2 liter.-----------> and to control ph swings?

55g hex-30w. wait on the single 2L and get more watts. then maybe just the liq co2 then.

[FtwayneFish]

what do you think?^^^^^

i have a AC 50 on my 10g just put the outlet of co2 in the bottom of it? wouldnt the venturi inlet suck the mix up?

on top of the 10.00 each for the 50 and 70. i got 4 lee's wooden airstones for 2.00. which is better. or both? block at bottom of powerhead?

[FtwayneFish]

bump

[FtwayneFish]

what if i had 5.2wpg on my 5g? would i use 2-2L of the mix???

[FtwayneFish]

bump

[FtwayneFish]

bump^^^ ?'s above.

[Sploke]

I would start off with one 2L bottle and measure your levels, then decide if you need more. 25w is not a whole ton of light, so it may be enough. There's a chart around here someplace that calculates your CO2 levels based on KH and pH, hopefully someone knows what I'm talking about and can post it.

[FtwayneFish]

ok, i cant find a hardness test either? kh gh ph phew

i do own a master test kit now.

but dont know what i should do with my ph numbers after co2.

[Sploke]

My master test kit came with a KH test....but I think the newer ones replaced it with a nitrate test. You may have to go out and get some separately, but its important to know when you start messing with CO2.

[Sploke]

This isn't the chart I had in mind but it will work just as well. It has a calculator too.

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm

[FtwayneFish]

looks great, still reading.

[FtwayneFish]

i cant find hardness tests anywhere.

[Sploke]

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754019&cp=&sr=1&origkw=test+kit&kw=test+kit&parentPage=search&keepsr=1

http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18541/si1380816/cl0/aquariumpharmaceuticalskhkit

[elementkid65]

use nano diffusers off ebay (ceraamic bell type)

[Mgamer20o0]

just buy it online. if the ph in the tank is about 1 ph lower then the tap should be about 30ppm.

[FtwayneFish]

sploke- thanks. i meant around town. ill prolly have to buy one online.

mgamer- thanks thats helpful. i did noticed my output slowed a bit after the first couple of days. and i read somewhere to shake it? i must not have read too hard. i shook just a bit. BAM co2 everywhere it was a explosion at my wooden airstone. i quickly turn on my airstone to gas off the super extra. but as fast as it was rising i figured it naturally got out. but i wanted to be safe. how often should you shake it? and did i waste a bunch? will it regain? it slowed down in a min then was back to like the first day. then the next it was a lil slow again?

[Sploke]

The reason you get that explosion is that there is a certain amount of CO2 that is dossolved in the solution in the bottle. Once that reaches its saturation point, it starts gassing off, out your diffuser. When you shake the bottle, much like shaking a bottle of soda, it releases a lot of that dissolved CO2 so you get a short burst of gas release. Once its back to equilibrium in the solution, it will return to normal.

[FtwayneFish]

but its ok? it gasses of really quick rushing up to the surface that fast right? its wasted? its it ok for the mix? did i shorten its life? how often should you shake it? each day? really hard?

thanks in advance

[jmhart]

Make sure you don't have a blockage somewhere. My diy started letting off very few bubbles, except when I would shake it. Turned out, one of my check valves was blocked.

You shouldn't have to shake it to get bubbles out. In fact, you really don't want to shake it. The dissolved co2 reaches an equilibrium with the surrounding environment, when you release that dissolved co2, it has to build up again before the pressure builds. On top of the time it takes to build up, you've also wasted that co2 that exploded out.

I think where you read to shake it, it mean to lighting shake(not even a shake, just turn it upside down once or twice) to mix the yeast with the sugar.


EDIT: Don't shake it and espeically don't shake it really hard. Yeast don't like the violence. After initially mixing the contents, you don't ever need to shake the bottle. Just let the pressure build on it's own. Sometimes, to get good output, my bottles can take up to 24 hours. They'll start bubbling after just a few hours, but to get my normal constant output, it'll take 24 hours(again, for me). This will then last close to two weeks.

[FtwayneFish]

again your the MAN. I thankyou greatly