Too Much Aeration - Too Much Circulation?

F

Freshwater Noob

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Dec 8, 2007
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Multiple questions from a freshwater noob:

I have a 40 gallon L tank that I have been fishless cycling for over a month. I am waiting until after Christmas to stock with fish because of the fear of leaving a newly setup tank for week at the end of the year.

I have been trying to figure out if my ph level is acceptable for a freshwater community tank (7.6-7.8) and why it is so resilient to anything that I try to do to lower the ph to a stable level. We have hard water and I bought a tap water ion exchange filter (I think it is a piece of junk) for water changes to help with the hardness (really haven't seen any improvements). But after reading some threads I think that hard water and a higher ph that is still within the 6-8 range should be ok. right???

Also, I have done saltwater tanks before but I am not familiar with the nuances of the freshwater tanks. I have two powerheads on opposite sides of my tank with an air pump hooked up to the outflow on each. I also have an external bio wheel filter that is for a 60 gallon tank. The tank has great circulation and any time I have done a partial water change the debris and cloudiness of the tank are quickly cycled. My concern is that I have too much aeration (bad for community fish?) or too much circulation (two powerheads mixing with the outflow of the bio wheel filter).

Could the aeration and circulation be some of the cause for my higher ph?

The tank is kept at 78 degrees and has fake plants with a large plastic reef rock. I also have the two powerheads hooked up to an undergravel filter on each side.
 
A high amount of circulation normally isn't a problem in tanks unless your fish are being blown around and can't fight the current. That being said, there are some fish that don't like as much current, but those are few and far between normally from the standard selection.

What kind of fish were you thinking about having?

Depending on the flow of the powerheads, you may want to remove one, but having two is sometimes nice to blow all the debris into one corner for easy vacuuming. As for UGFs, I'm not a fan merely because I don't like the maintenance on it. Things go to the bottom and clog it from my experience, so I try go with plain intake tubes, sometimes with sponges over them.

Have you tested your tap water before adding it to a tank? You may just have water that swings towards one end of the spectrum generally. The precise pH isn't exactly necessary for your fish as long as it is stable. I've kept fish and seen people keep fish where the stats were outside of the recommended ranges for them, but they fish lived long lives. Having the water fluctuate up and down while trying to correct it might be more of a problem.

Again, if you clue us into the fish you were thinking about, I'm sure someone can point you to information on the pH and circulation.
 
I have been researching fish and so far I think that I have my heart set on 4-6 neon tetras, possibly some sort of platys, mollies, & fancy guppies (depending on how big they get, 1 inch of fish to every 1 gallon of water at the max right?). Also, I would like to get an algae eater that isn't agressive so it would do well in a community tank but I don't want it to get to too big which rules out the pleco and algae eater. Looking for an algae eater that would only get about 5" max. Any recommendations? Really just looking for some colorful, peaceful fish that won't get to big so I can have a wide variety of them in my 40 gal. tank.
 
I have never seen a UGF clog or be an issue unless you were slack on your maintenance. I have been running them for 25 plus yrs. I would prefer if you reversed flow for the plates though. Otos would be a good choice once the tank is well established.

The circulation will not affect the pH. Test your tap water pH after letting it sit out overnight in a shallow dish, with a good liquid test kit.
 
Guppies, mollies and platies will love the 7.5+ pH. The live bearers tend to the high end of the scale compared to some other common fish. The neons may not be as happy but they do OK in about 7.4 at my house. So do the otocinclus which are passive algae eating fish. If you are using the inch thumb rule, count a guppy as about 1 or 2 and a platy or molly as about 2 or 3. That should get you in the ball park for those fish. The rule is basically flawed but try 4 or 5 of each plus 2 or 3 otos and I would add in 3 small corydorus. It will not be overstocked but all of the livebearers will gift you with fry eventually. At that point you will need to look for more room or let them be fish food.
 
I dont think it is worth trying to do anything to alter your pH - it is much easier and safer for your fish to work with it as much as possible.

Inevitably with the pH altering products you get swings in the pH as it fluctuates according to when the tank has been dosed etc, and that upsets the fish much more than a pH that is a little above or below the ideal for their species.

As has been mentioned, fish can be quite resilient to pH, and if acclimatised to it correctly the general community fish you mention - guppies, platty's neon tetras, harlequin rasboras etc should all be ok.

By the way, are you still dosing your tank up to 2ppm to keep the bacteria alive in your tank. You will need to do this if you are not getting fish until after Christmas.

As far as circulation is concerned, all you need to for the more common community fish is to make sure that the surface of your tank water is being gently agitated - a sort of gently rippling effect is fine. that breaks up the surface water and allows for oxygenation to take place. There are some fish that do not appreciate a strong current so you may want to consider that.

If you want a bit more 'action' in the tank, then a bubble bar or airstone can give extra oxygenation and looks good too. Some fish do seem to like playing in the bubbles too!
 
I have added ph decreaser before but I have since done a couple of 25% water changes. The ph decreaser has really had no effect ( I think because of how hard our water is.......I guess that means my ph of 7.6-7.8 is well buffered naturally?) so I quit using it. I have been trying to use a tap water filter that I bought at Petsmart to remove some of the hardness but even with the filtering my water comes out of the filter at about 7.6-7.8. Maybe I should just live with it? I was wondering though, what are the negative effects of a higher ph with hard water?
 
Taking the advice of the group, I have reversed the flow on my powerheads to go down and through the plates. I have found that this is a great way to keep debris circulating through the tank and into the filters without having a strong current. I have also kept the air lines plugged into the powerheads but since the flow is now in the opposite direction the spread of the bubbles is much thinner and the bubbles are much smaller. I think that this will be the setup that I use from now on. Any thoughts?
 
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