Very Confused - Cichlids vs. Brackish Water

[jjhgoodguy]

:confused:
I've asked a couple of questions regarding the ID'ing of 3 fish and also regarding what would be compatible "alge eating" bottom feeders for several species of Lake Malawi fish. (Pseudotropheus "Acei" & "Keni" I think, and Melanochromis Johnanni and Labidochromis Caeruleus).

I've received several answers saying these fish were NOT brackish water fish. Admitidly, the salinity of the water is around 1.0003 to 1.0005. Is this not considered "brackish".

This leads me to ask some more questions.

Will these fish live just as well in pure fresh water (no salt added)?

I've been staying away from Oscars & Dempsys because I heard these are Freshwater cichlids. Do I need to be concerned if I purchase a Dempsey and put it into water that has some salt in it.?

Is there anyone out there that can give me a good lesson on fresh water vs. brackish water as they pertain to the cichlids? Looking forward to some good information.

[nmrsco]

do you add salt to the tank? how long have those fish been living in there? as I said, the only brackish cichlids I know of are green and orange chromides

[nchoe123]

how apt; i picked up my first african cichlids-- starting off easy with yellow labs-- and the fish store guy was like "be sure to add salt"-- i think he wanted me to put three CUPS of salt in to my 55g. i just nodded and took the bag home. they even have them marked down as "brackish water fish".

[jjhgoodguy]

Thanks Nick - and NCHOE123.

Nick - I did read your message on the other thread I wrote which prompted this one. Assuming you and NCHOE123 are correct, when I do future water changes should I use any salt at all? Even like 1 teaspoon per 1 or 2 gallons to ween them off salt altogether or is there a good argument to continue to use some salt to prevent a disease like Ich?

Thanks for your previous comments.

[tarheels910]

AFRICANS ARE NOT BRACKISH!!!

They require a high ph, 7.8-8.0. This does not mean they need salt.

[kay-bee]

The cichlids you have originate from a lake with high mineral content, which is not the same as brackish (which is high salt content). I recommend not replenishing the salt as you conduct your future water changes to reduce and ultimately eliminate the salinity of your tank water.

Adding baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) and epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) would have been more appropriate additives in attempts to replicate their native environment (the former increases alkalinity/KH pH while the latter increases general hardness/GH). However even those additives aren't a requirement with these cichlids (while ideal parameters would be nice, stable un-adjusted parameters are better, especially if your source water has a pH of 7.5 or more).

[elementkid65]

no salt purely freshwater i told u in the other thread

[MiramichiMob]

True, they don't need salt, but I put a few table spoons in with each water change and all the fish seem fine and healthy. In my opinion, adding baking soda to raise the ph is risky. It is hard to judge how much to put to get the desired ph, and it is a drastic change that can be fatal to your fish. If your tap water is close to 7.5 or so, and the fish seem happy, i wouldn't mess with it.

[tarheels910]

True, they don't need salt, but I put a few table spoons in with each water change and all the fish seem fine and healthy. In my opinion, adding baking soda to raise the ph is risky. It is hard to judge how much to put to get the desired ph, and it is a drastic change that can be fatal to your fish. If your tap water is close to 7.5 or so, and the fish seem happy, i wouldn't mess with it.

You are thinking of aquarium salt. This person is talking about ocean salt.

[MiramichiMob]

Oh yes, missed that part.

[nmrsco]

Thanks Nick - and NCHOE123.

Nick - I did read your message on the other thread I wrote which prompted this one. Assuming you and NCHOE123 are correct, when I do future water changes should I use any salt at all? Even like 1 teaspoon per 1 or 2 gallons to ween them off salt altogether or is there a good argument to continue to use some salt to prevent a disease like Ich?


I think you should start weening them off the salt, but just a little at a time like you said to avoid putting them in shock. Im not an expert, but thats what I would do. how much salt do you add during water changes? salt supposedly does help prevent certain diseases and parasites, but I think in the case of african cichlids it will do more harm than good

[ibr3ak]

How about adding an african rift lake cichlid salt from either H2O aquatics or seachem? Just for general prophylactic and prevention of a possible number of diseases. Furthermore what are the pros of having cichlid salt in your water?

[kay-bee]

Rift Lake cichlid 'salt' will increase the hardness and alkalinity of water, which is the ideal (but not necessarily required) water properties to keep them in. However I don't believe rift lake salt will perform as a general prophylactic pr disease preventative.

If kept well (fed a quality diet and kept in a stable environment will great water conditions) they'll be healthy on their own and typically resistant to maladies (barring, of course, the introduction of disease(s) brought on by a new fish that wasn't quarantined, etc).

[endlessdream]

So conditioning salt is ok to put in with water changes? I have a convict cichlid.

[ibr3ak]

I put regular aquarium salt in my convict tank with each water change, keeps them ick and other disease free, they seem fine with it.

kay-bee so if cichlid salt is basically a buffer can I still add it into the mbuna tank even if I already have crushed corals for a gravel acting as a natural buffer? Will there be any adverse effects to doing that?

[endlessdream]

I put regular aquarium salt in my convict tank with each water change, keeps them ick and other disease free, they seem fine with it.
How much / g?

[Lupin]

I put regular aquarium salt in my convict tank with each water change, keeps them ick and other disease free, they seem fine with it.
That's basically a waste of time and money in my opinion. Table salt would have work for a fraction of the aquarium salt's price but adding salt without anything wrong at all is even more unnecessary. Don't fix what is broken.

[hotpod]

i have a 55 gallon african cichlid tank from malawi...and i have never added anything to it..no ph stuff no hardner. no nothing...my water from the tap is ph 7.5 and liquid rock hardness...however i have never added salt or anything like that...and my cichlids are breeding like crazy i have 25 assorted kinds of cichlid fry so obviously all of this water chemistry stuff doesnt really matter to them...IMO. i used to worry about that kind of stuff untill someone like the moderator said...why worry with it? they are healthy leave them ALONE! lol i was doing everything under the sun. and when i left them alone....oddly enough. they started breeding! lol so you can try with the chemistry stuff but in my experience it didnt do that much of anything. i have very healthy parenting cichlids without all the additives. so anyway that my oppinion it isnt worth anything. just my experience...however if it does it help with them...let me know...i might go back! LOL

[ibr3ak]

endlessdream I add half (or maybe a little less) a teaspoon of salt per galon.

Lupin aquarium salt is about 2 bucks a pop, un-ionized table salt is about the same, dunno about unnecessary that may be, but ever since I've had the worst case of ick I've just been adding salt as a general precaution and it seems to work so far.


Don't fix what is broken.

;)


hotpod your tap water is hard as it is, and yea it might become softer in a tank, BUT where I live the tap water's ph fluctuates and is anywhere near 6.0-6.4, which is then even softer in the tank (my convict tank water is around 6.0 right now, though convicts are pretty hardy and bred in it just fine, I just don't wanna experiment with mbuna).

[Sploke]

There isn't really any need to add table salt or aquarium salt to your tank as a "general tonic". If you need to treat ich, use it for treatment and then stop after the treatment is finished. Once the ich has been eradicated, there's no need to continue treating for it.

[nchoe123]

Note that I'm not saying that I agree with my LFS recommendation!

I'm just passing along the message, and I attempted to convey my doubt in my post, but seem to have failed in that regard.

I have crushed coral in my malawi tank, and they seem fine for now; pH is around 7.8 or so. My GBR tank is at 6.6, so it's sort of funny having both extremes (not that either is extreme really)