What do you think of this stock list?

[AnnetteG]

I'm picking up about 80 pounds of live rock and all the fish & critters from a guy I found on CL who is getting out of the hobby. So all these fish and critters come with the live rock we're getting. I may or may not keep them all, but will appreciate your feedback and advice. I have a good LFS I can take them to and get store credit if there is anything I shouldn't keep.

Fish: Coral Beauty Angel, Blackcap Basslet, Neon Goby, Yellow Clown Goby

Inverts: 2 Cleaner shrimp, ~6 hermits, 10 Nassarius Snails, ~6 Turbo snails

1 rock anemone
1 Bubble tip anemone (large)
1 umbrella mushroom
1 small toadstool
1 small devils hand
1 green ricordea
1 blue spotted mushroom
2 lavender mushrooms
>12 red mushrooms (most on one rock)
6 orange spotted red mushroom (plus two frags)
Multiple zooanthids - most brown, some brown with green, 4 purple and green
Small rock of tan polyps

I'm pretty sure I'll have room in my tank for most of his rock, and I can always take out some of my base rock, if I need to, but I really like the shapes of some of the rocks I have in there now. That one big one in the back where the flash is pointing down to it has a nice size cave and is really holey and cool.
Here is a picture of my tank as it is right now:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2075/2184090623_b353316726.jpg

Comments and suggestions are appreciated!

ETA: Oh and at some point, I would like to have either a yellowhead jawfish or a yellow watchman goby and a clown or two. So, bearing that in mind, can I keep the fish that we'll be getting from this guy? I'd like to have a royal gramma basslet and a 6 line wrasse eventually too.

Also, I want to have sexy shrimp and pom pom shrimp in the future. Hopefully.

[cav]

how big is this tank? Is your water cycled already?

[cav]

Just had a look at your signature. If your tank your using is the 105 gallon and you keep the fish and the rock the guy has given you then your about fully stocked with the possibility of maybe one more fish in the 4" range. I wouldn't risk adding the Royal Gramma with another basslett and I very much doubt you would have room for one clown never mind two. Here is a link to a good fish compatabiltiy chart:

http://www.peteducation.com/general.cfm?cls=16&static_pagesid=18

[FeatherDuster]

Just to make sure I understand...

Once you pickup the guys live stock you will have these fish:
Coral Beauty Angel
Blackcap Basslet
Neon Goby
Yellow Clown Goby

But you would like to add these fish:
Yellowhead Jawfish
Yellow watchman goby , maybe two
Clown, maybe two
Royal Gramma
Six Line

If so , here are some stocking list suggestions that I believe might work for you:

1.
Coral Beauty Angel
Blackcap Basslet
Neon Goby
Pair of Clownfish
Proven Pair of Yellow Watchman Gobies

2.
Coral Beauty
Royal Gramma
Neon Goby
Yellow Clown Goby
Pair of clownfish
Six Line (with caution, add last)

Assuming your tank is cycled and ready for fish I would take back the fish that don't fit your stocking list now and wait a month or two before adding extra fish. And when you add new fish, to make sure you add them 22-35 days apart (except pairs).

[AnnetteG]

I've looked at pics of the fish I'm getting from this guy and I'm not attached to them. We're taking them to start with because he wants to sell all his stock at once. We're picking it all up on Saturday, the 26th, so I could even just keep the fish in a bucket, drop all the rock and everything into my tank and then run the fish to my LFS. Would this work? Because I'd hate to put them in and then decide I don't want them and have to catch them out of my tank and traumatize them twice. I may keep the coral beauty, but I need to study that compatibility list since I know what fish I'd like to have. I've already promised my kids "Nemo" so we've got to have at least one clown. Plus that anemone we're getting from the guy says it does best with a clown.

I'm reading from LiveAquaria.com when I say that.

What do you suggest I do to safely transport the fish and keep them comfy while I place the rock and other critters in my tank?

Anyway, I've got two weeks to get my tank ready, so I will throw in a raw shrimp if you guys say I should. I'm dosing with "saltwater biozyme" every day right now, which I figured couldn't hurt even if it doesn't do what it says it does. But, I also figured that putting in the live rock and some of his live sand will make it safe for the critters we're getting from him.

Thanks for the advice and help! I want this tank to be a successful community and I know it will be a slow process. If I take in those fish to my LFS, I can always use the credit to just get chemicals and tests or more rocks or something and hold off on fish if you guys think I should.

[AnnetteG]

I was just reading another thread about how long it takes to establish a saltwater tank and that it should be months before I put anything living in there. First I thought that if I put in Live Rock, I wouldn't have to cycle, but now I'm confused. If I buy this 80 pounds of LR from this guy, and all his inverts and fish, am I going to be killing the inverts and fish? I don't want to do that, but I do want the live rock. What should I do?

[AnnetteG]

anyone? bueller?

[salty420]

unless the tank has already cycled, no, you should not put the fish, inverts or corals in there with the lr. i'd take those buckets right to your lfs and get store credit for all the livestock. it would be better to get the credit for them to use later then risk having the stock die, right? of course you may not have much of a cycle if all the rock is this used lr... but it's all new water, right?

[AnnetteG]

Well, he's going to give us as much of his water as we can carry, which I understand will be good for us to add that to our tank, right? And yes, the 80+ pounds of rock we're getting from him has all been being run for a long time (not sure how long, but I've seen his pics and it looks good). I put in A Live Rock today. Just the one, LOL. But it's a start! I'm also dosing with bio-zyme, which I read some good reviews on.

So, with all that, do you think it will be okay to keep some of the livestock? If not, I'll go ahead and take them all in for credit. There are some other things I'll be needing by then anyway. The store I go to (because I like it, like the owner, etc. etc.) doesn't give future credit, just a "discount" off the purchase I make at the time I give him the fish. But I can always find something I want/need there!

[AnnetteG]

okay, here are some pictures of the stuff we're getting. We're going to take all the water that we can, this is a 58 gal. tank, so we'll be doing about a 50% wc on our tank and putting in all his water. Also, we'll take two of his powerheads, one of which he says is sitting on a sponge that is full of good bacteria that he will give us. So I'm leaning towards thinking this is going to make it safe for us to keep the critters. I REALLY REALLY want to keep them, since we're practically getting them free. BUT, I do want everyone's advice on here and will take it and learn from it. I have decided for sure that I'll be taking in the blackcap basslet, since I know I want a Royal Gramma.

anyway, here are the pics, lemme know what you think! Thank you!

[salty420]

looks like some nice stuff you are getting. honesty i'd be pretty scared that i'd loose some of the stock but you may be ok if you can keep most of the water... do you have water in the 105g with your current rock now?

[AnnetteG]

yes, is that bad? You may not have seen my other posts about it, but I was given a large amount of rock from a guy who's tank had crashed while he was out of town. It'd been on his front lawn for a week, but still has lots of spots of purple coralline all over it. We sprayed it off pretty good and put it in the tank and got it up and running so I could start working on a cycle, and planned on buying live rock as soon as we could to put in with the almost dead rock we have. I did see a few bits of squishy dead who knows what in the "dead rock" and left it there thinking it might help get things going. I'm hoping that the purple stuff on there now is a good sign. Anyway, it was after we'd done all that that I found this person I'm getting the above from. So now the plan is to try and get my cycle established in the next two weeks, if possible, and then bring home this stuff.

I did put a live rock in there yesterday. My first! LOL I also put in two itty bitty green chromis damsels yesterday. I KNOW I KNOW, fishy cycling bad, but they're SO teeny, and my tank is SO big, I'm thinking the dilution of the bad stuff will be so much that it won't hurt them and they'll add in just enough ammonia to get the bacteria I'm putting in with the biozyme feeding and multiplying. I'm watching the water parameters like a hawk. Tested last night and ammonia, nitrites and trates were all still 0. Adding biozyme again right now and will test again later today.

Since the other tank the new stuff (new to me) has been in is a 58 and my tank is 105, we'll pull out 50% of our water right before we go get the stuff and pour his water directly in and then add the rock and animals.

From the reading I've done thus far, my understanding was that if you put in enough live rock, you really don't have to cycle, you can add fish immediately, so if I'm putting in all this live rock, and the established water, then the critters that have already been with the rock and water should be fine, correct?

Oh, we also put rubble from the "almost" dead rock in the sump. I can get some more rubble that is already Live from my LFS for a good price and mix in with it pretty soon too, if you think that's a good idea.

I'm sorry this is so long, just want to give all the information so you know what's going on and can advise me based on all that. Thank you!!!

ETA: probably doesn't make much difference, but we did add in about 20 pounds of live sand on top of the other sand and before putting in the rocks.

[AnnetteG]

I'd have added this above, but the edit button isn't there for some reason. Time limit, I guess.

anyway, the fish have both killed themselves on my rocks. I put them in last night around 7 and they were fine. This morning they both had reddish bruises on their sides that as close as I could see, looked like a scratch or something, which I guess could have come from swimming into a crevice in the rocks? Maybe they weren't used to swimming in rocks, since the tank at the store was wide open? SO wierd. I found the first one dead this afternoon, squished between two rocks, almost as if he'd swam into them as tightly as he could and then just died. The other one was swimming in the current until this afternoon about 5 and I saw him dart off behind the rocks and I haven't seen him since and can't find him.

I'm really bummed, but I guess I'll just leave the bodies in their and let the cycle take care of it. Shouldn't take more than the two weeks I have to wait, right? And I'll be doing a big water change when I get the new stuff.

Can I or should I pick up a few little crabs or snails or something?

[salty420]

sounds like the fish were rubbing on the rocks maybe... have you checked your params again? don't get anymore fish, i'd take out the bodies and throw a raw shrimp (in pantyhose) in there... you may be ok if you get the cycle going and have 2 weeks till you get the other rock and water.

[bowser7of9]

I managed to get my smaller (32G) tank to cycle in roughly 8 days but it should be the same process for a bigger tank. Good luck with your plan.

I think that adding that many fish all at once will start a new cycle in your tank. Try and keep your LR in buckets for as short a period as possible, if it starts smelling bad (the rock) that means some die-off will have occurred and this could also cause a cycle to start.

One question, from the picture of your tank, the purple/red stuff below your thin layer of sand, what is it? Is it aquarium gravel? Because if it is, I believe that will become a nitrate trap, someone correct me if I'm wrong. Of course I can't really tell what it is from the picture.

I'm no expert but I've found a lot of good advice on here, keep reading and educate yourself, and once again good luck.

[FeatherDuster]

Sorry for your losses. Most likely something was stressing them out. It could have been fighting, water quality or disease. Rubbing on the rocks is usually a symptom, not the root cause.

I wouldn't add any more fish yet. Adding live rock helps move the cycle along faster, but it does not eliminate the chances of experiencing a cycle. For the safety of the fish, I would hold off. You might even experience a cycle just from adding live rock. The die off during the transportation of live rock can cause an ammonia spike. You will get an idea of how much bacteria you have in your tank once a ammonia spike is triggered. If you have enough beneficial bacteria on your live rock then the cycle could be extremely short (4-13 days).

I highly recommend keeping a daily log of your water parameters until you are sure the cycle is complete. Usually I would recommend testing every 3-4 days, but since you will getting a large amount of live rock your cycle might progress faster and you will need a nice scale of readings to understand where you are in your cycle.

[AnnetteG]

no more fish for now, no worries. I didn't think they'd have a problem in water with nothing in it yet, but now I know. Poor little guys. :(

You think there will be die off on the rock in the amount of time it takes to move it from his tank to mine when we're probably only traveling MAYBE an hour? More like 30 minutes? I'll be putting the rock in as soon as we get it home.

maybe I will take all the critters in that day for credit. I don't want to kill anything. :headshake2:

[Grins]

Not sure I have read this right, but did you keep the bubble tip anemone from the previous owner? It sounds like your tank hasn't yet cycled yet. Oh, and I disagree that a bta does better with clown. There isn't even a guarantee that a clown will adopt a host.

[AnnetteG]

no, I haven't gotten anything yet, I'm picking it all up from him in 2 weeks. I'm trying to decide if I put in all his water, bio media, a sponge that he says has good bac and powerheads that have been in his tank, live rock and live sand into my tank, if it will be safe to also put in his critters at the same time, which (seems like it might) be just like moving his tank into a larger one, maybe. But, if you all think I'm just going to kill all the critters, then I'll take them to my LFS and trade them in for chemicals, salt, more rocks, or something like that. I'd really like to keep them obviously, but I don't want to kill them.

anyway, I'm working on getting my tank cycled and hopefully can do that in the next two weeks and make a final decision then, based on whatever numbers I'm getting by then. I tested last night and did have some ammonia now, although it seems to be low - between .25 and .5.