Plans to set up 29g tank

[gatotsu77]

Not sure if any of you have heard about what I've mentioned elsewhere on the forum, but my gf is inheriting a 29g tank, and is getting serious about wanting to do a FOWLR tank, possibly even a few pieces of coral.

I have to admit, I do not know all that much about salt water tanks just yet, but I have been doing some reading. I do know a little bit about specific gravity of the water, calcium requirements, that salt water cannot be stocked like fresh water, and that water flow is very important.

What we're beginning to envision is as follows:

25-30 lbs of live rock
10-15 lbs live sand
2x Koralia 1
150 watt heater
This thing for lighting http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18369/si1381733/cl0/currentusasatellitedual302x65wattpowercompactstrip lightwlunarlight

As for livestock, how does this sound? Are these guys compatible? Are there requirements or personality traits I'm not taking into account?

2x Dwarf blue leg hermit crab
2x Dwarf red tip hermit crab
6x Engina sp.
1x Stenopus hispidus
1x Pterapogon kauderni
1x Lythrypnus dalli
2x Trimma cana

Is that way too much for a 29g tank? Would the shrimp pose issues with the fish?

How far fetched is it to want to keep a Tridacna crocea in said tank? Impossible? Would we have to give up some of the livestock to provide for the clam? Would that lighting be adequate?

I'm sure that we will have a LOT of questions, so please bare with us and thank you so much for all of your help. :D

[Reefscape]

Not sure if any of you have heard about what I've mentioned elsewhere on the forum, but my gf is inheriting a 29g tank, and is getting serious about wanting to do a FOWLR tank, possibly even a few pieces of coral.

I have to admit, I do not know all that much about salt water tanks just yet, but I have been doing some reading. I do know a little bit about specific gravity of the water, calcium requirements, that salt water cannot be stocked like fresh water, and that water flow is very important.

What we're beginning to envision is as follows:

25-30 lbs of live rock <<Keep this at least 30lbs, preferably more towards 35 to 40lbs>>
10-15 lbs live sand <<This will not be much when spread out, work on about 1Lb per gallon. This will give a nice sandbed of about 1 inch>>
2x Koralia 1 <<Should be fine>>
150 watt heater
This thing for lighting http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18369/si1381733/cl0/currentusasatellitedual302x65wattpowercompactstrip lightwlunarlight
<<Lighting unit seems fine to me, however, it all depends on what corals your going to be keeping as to whether its good enough>>
As for livestock, how does this sound? Are these guys compatible? Are there requirements or personality traits I'm not taking into account?

2x Dwarf blue leg hermit crab
2x Dwarf red tip hermit crab
6x Engina sp. <<Presume you mean the bumble bee variety of snail??>>
1x Stenopus hispidus <<CBS - Fine on its own>>
1x Pterapogon kauderni <<Cardinal fish, cute little fish>>
1x Lythrypnus dalli <<Catalina Goby - Either this or the ones below, i would not mix these in your size of tank>>
2x Trimma cana <<Red Striped Goby - Would not keep two of these unless you can confirm you have a male and a female>>

Is that way too much for a 29g tank? Would the shrimp pose issues with the fish?
<<Depends on what you choose for your fish stocking, i would not suggest keeping all them together in the tank, you want to aim for 4 average sized fish. The shrimp will be fine>>
How far fetched is it to want to keep a Tridacna crocea in said tank? Impossible? Would we have to give up some of the livestock to provide for the clam? Would that lighting be adequate?
<<Very far fetched, a completely different and more powerfull lighting fixture would be needed. Either metal halide or T5 with individual reflectors>>
I'm sure that we will have a LOT of questions, so please bare with us and thank you so much for all of your help. :D

Nice to see you asking the right questions..Added some comments above in red..

Niko

[gatotsu77]

Thank you for your input. :D The more I had been thinking about it, the more I realized that a little more live rock than initially planned would probably be a good idea, as that is the primary means of biological filtration for salt water tanks, yes? Is there a need to add mechanical filtration too? (such as a small HOB filter?)

The corals Lisa (my gf) might be interested in will be in a post soon to come, she's downstairs cooking with my mom at the moment. :p:

As for the snails, yes, I did mean the bumble bee ones. :-)

I understand that the hermits and snails will contribute to the bio load, so with them, the shrimp, and the 4 fish, we'd be a little over the limits of the 29g, yes? I may try to convince her to just keep the CBS with the cardinal fish and catalina goby. If we were to replace the cardinal fish with a Pseudocheilinus hexataenia (six line wrasse) would the 2 fish and the shrimp be ok in a 29g tank? Liveaquaria.com suggests that the six line wrasse is reef-safe, but I wanted to ask what you guys think about this too. (and does it really only get to be 3"?)

I don't think lisa can afford a MH lighting system... I showed her some prices last night and she about fell out of her chair. Is the lighting the only limiting factor on the clam? Would it be ok with the rest of our ideas? Just to list them out:

2x Dwarf blue leg hermit crab
2x Dwarf red tip hermit crab
6x Engina sp.
1x Pseudocheilinus hexataenia
1x Lythrypnus dalli

The clam is more of a "want but don't need" than anything else, though she would absolutely love to have one. She may be able to afford a MH lighting system in the future, say, perhaps in 6-9 months, which as I understand, would be better to wait until the tank is established for the clam anyway. They are filter feeders, yes?

Again, thank you so much for taking the time to offer your input. Lisa will be very excited to hear that her salt water tank may not be as far out in left field as we initially suspected. :D

Oh, one last note to add... we were planning to purchase pre-made salt water from the LFS until such time as we can afford a nice refractometer and better understand how to pre-mix our own. Is this a good/bad idea?

[gatotsu77]

Now that I have her here next to me, we can post more stuff that she is interested in. I'm all for suggestions from you guys as to a preferred stocking list for the tank, I'm just going to add some more fish she's potentially interested in.

Gramma loreto (fairly interested)
Chrysiptera parasema (fairly interested, not essential)
Salarias fasciatus (kinda sorta interested, won't be sad if we can't have this one)
Synchiropus splendidus (depending on limitations this would place on the tank)
Pterapogon kauderni (extremely interested)
Lythrypnus dalli (extremely interested)
Pseudocheilinus hexataenia (kinda interested, wants to see in person to judge)
Stenopus hispidus (definitely wants this one)
Amblygobius decussatus (likes that it digs, any others comparable?)
Stonogobiops nematodes (cute, fairly interested)
Ctenogobiops tangaroai (liked equally as much as one above)
Amblyeleotris randalli (kinda interested)
Elacatinus oceanops (kinda interested)
Elacatinus puncticulatus (compatiable with catalina goby?)
Priolepis nocturnus (kinda cute, need better picture though, online ones are crap)
Paracheilinus mccoskeri (fairly interested, not a must-have)

Ok, that pretty much completes the list which we can build from liveaquaria.com. Essentially, she's looking for small, colorful, and cute. (and reef-safe) Any and all other suggestions are absolutely welcome, as well as a complete stocking list (including numbers of each) for the tank.

As for the corals, we think she might save up and get something more like this: http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp19840/si2354622/cl0/currentusasundialhqipendent150watt2x32watt
Hoping that will be sufficient lighting for the Tridacna crocea, and potentially some other coral. Basically, she's looking for blues, greens, and reds, vibrance, and generally something that will look both aesthetically pleasing, and potentially cute. Things like:
Plerogyra sinuosa
Turbinaria sp.
Sarcophyton elegans
Montipora capricornis
Acropora sp.
Duncanopsammia axifuga
Actinodiscus sp.
Ricordea yuma

I'm sure there are lots of others she might be interested in too... and please understand, I'm not trying to say we want to keep those exact ones, just going for examples of some of the things she likes. She's also trying to find something she knows as "fountain coral," though we have been unsuccessful in locating it on google.

She's also asked me to add that she's interested in this little guy Mespilia globulus and potentially some anenomes.

Again, please bare with us, we don't know a whole lot about salt water tanks just yet, but we are trying to get the knowledge we'll need to have a fighting chance before we start diving into it. We likely won't be getting this tank going for 3-6 months anyway. Thank you so much for all of your help. :D

[Reefscape]

Thank you for your input. :D The more I had been thinking about it, the more I realized that a little more live rock than initially planned would probably be a good idea, as that is the primary means of biological filtration for salt water tanks, yes? Is there a need to add mechanical filtration too? (such as a small HOB filter?)
<<You can have a mixture of both, although i personaly prefer just to have live rock as the filtration>>
The corals Lisa (my gf) might be interested in will be in a post soon to come, she's downstairs cooking with my mom at the moment. :p:

As for the snails, yes, I did mean the bumble bee ones. :-)

I understand that the hermits and snails will contribute to the bio load <<they contribure no real load to the bioload>>, so with them, the shrimp, and the 4 fish, we'd be a little over the limits of the 29g, yes?
<<4 fish would be fine of the sizes of fish mentioned>>
I may try to convince her to just keep the CBS with the cardinal fish and catalina goby. If we were to replace the cardinal fish with a Pseudocheilinus hexataenia (six line wrasse) would the 2 fish and the shrimp be ok in a 29g tank?
<<Yes, they would be fine>>
Liveaquaria.com suggests that the six line wrasse is reef-safe, but I wanted to ask what you guys think about this too. (and does it really only get to be 3"?)
<<The wrasses will be fine>>

I don't think lisa can afford a MH lighting system... I showed her some prices last night and she about fell out of her chair. Is the lighting the only limiting factor on the clam? Would it be ok with the rest of our ideas? Just to list them out:
<<Yes, the lighting is a limiting factor of the clam, the rest sounds fine to me>>

2x Dwarf blue leg hermit crab
2x Dwarf red tip hermit crab
6x Engina sp.
1x Pseudocheilinus hexataenia
1x Lythrypnus dalli
<<Sounds fine>>


The clam is more of a "want but don't need" than anything else, though she would absolutely love to have one. She may be able to afford a MH lighting system in the future, say, perhaps in 6-9 months, which as I understand, would be better to wait until the tank is established for the clam anyway. They are filter feeders, yes?
<<Yes, thats correct..When they grown, a good food is marine snow for them>>

Again, thank you so much for taking the time to offer your input. Lisa will be very excited to hear that her salt water tank may not be as far out in left field as we initially suspected. :D
<<Thats what were here for mate, no thanks needed>>

Oh, one last note to add... we were planning to purchase pre-made salt water from the LFS until such time as we can afford a nice refractometer and better understand how to pre-mix our own. Is this a good/bad idea?
<<If its cheap enough, yes..quite a few chose this route for water..Personaly, i would pod out from the start and get used to mixing it and learn whats involved>>



Added some comments in red above mate..

Niko

[Reefscape]

Now that I have her here next to me, we can post more stuff that she is interested in. I'm all for suggestions from you guys as to a preferred stocking list for the tank, I'm just going to add some more fish she's potentially interested in.

Gramma loreto (fairly interested) <<Royal Gramma - Nice fish>>
Chrysiptera parasema (fairly interested, not essential) << Yellow T Damsel - Agressive, i would not purchase>>
Salarias fasciatus (kinda sorta interested, won't be sad if we can't have this one) <<Algae Blenny - Nice fish, ensure a good food supply is available in the aquarium>>
Synchiropus splendidus (depending on limitations this would place on the tank) <<Green Mandarin - Wait a good 9 months for the tank and pod culture to get established before concidering such a fish>>
Pterapogon kauderni (extremely interested) <<Cardinal - nice>>
Lythrypnus dalli (extremely interested) <<Catalina Goby - Nice fish, spoken about before>>
Pseudocheilinus hexataenia (kinda interested, wants to see in person to judge) <<6 Line Wrasse - Spoken about before>>
Stenopus hispidus (definitely wants this one) <<CBS - ok>>
Amblygobius decussatus (likes that it digs, any others comparable?) <<Orange lined Goby - Nice fish>>
Stonogobiops nematodes (cute, fairly interested) <<Hi-Fin Goby - Nice fish>>
Ctenogobiops tangaroai (liked equally as much as one above) <<Tangaroa Goby - <<Nice fish, very friendly>>
Amblyeleotris randalli (kinda interested) <<Prawn Goby - Nice fish>>
Elacatinus oceanops (kinda interested) <<Neon Goby - nice fish>>
Elacatinus puncticulatus (compatiable with catalina goby?) <<Red Head Goby - can be agressive to other gobys>>
Priolepis nocturnus (kinda cute, need better picture though, online ones are crap) <<Convict Goby>>
Paracheilinus mccoskeri (fairly interested, not a must-have) <<Flasher Wrasse - would not mix with 6 line>>

Ok, that pretty much completes the list which we can build from liveaquaria.com. Essentially, she's looking for small, colorful, and cute. (and reef-safe) Any and all other suggestions are absolutely welcome, as well as a complete stocking list (including numbers of each) for the tank.
<<You have mentioned a lot of goby's there, just research each compatibility before purchase>>

As for the corals, we think she might save up and get something more like this: http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp19840/si2354622/cl0/currentusasundialhqipendent150watt2x32watt
<<Yes, thats not a bad fixture>>
Hoping that will be sufficient lighting for the Tridacna crocea, and potentially some other coral. Basically, she's looking for blues, greens, and reds, vibrance, and generally something that will look both aesthetically pleasing, and potentially cute. Things like:
Plerogyra sinuosa
Turbinaria sp.
Sarcophyton elegans
Montipora capricornis
Acropora sp.
Duncanopsammia axifuga
Actinodiscus sp.
Ricordea yuma
<< All corals will require research in to feeding, lighting, compatibility etc before purchasing. Some are agressive, where as some are not and will suffer if you put them too close together>>


I'm sure there are lots of others she might be interested in too... and please understand, I'm not trying to say we want to keep those exact ones, just going for examples of some of the things she likes. She's also trying to find something she knows as "fountain coral," though we have been unsuccessful in locating it on google.
<<Never heard of it>>

She's also asked me to add that she's interested in this little guy Mespilia globulus and potentially some anenomes.
<<The tuxido is a nice one, not overly vigorous on the coralline algae>>

Again, please bare with us, we don't know a whole lot about salt water tanks just yet, but we are trying to get the knowledge we'll need to have a fighting chance before we start diving into it. We likely won't be getting this tank going for 3-6 months anyway. Thank you so much for all of your help. :D

Added more comments above in red...

Hope they help mate

Niko

[Wrench]

Six line wrasses are very aggressive even though they're reef safe.

I'd go with more hermits and snails for a more effective cleaner crew. Blue legs will kill each other off as well as other species. Dwarf red legs and scarlets are better choices and will help get rid of uneaten food and detritus. Some astrea or trochus and turbo snails will keep the film algae to a minimum. A conch or two and a cucumber will keep the sand clean.

I also see no mention of a skimmer. Something you may want to consider.

[gatotsu77]

Six line wrasses are very aggressive even though they're reef safe.

I'd go with more hermits and snails for a more effective cleaner crew. Blue legs will kill each other off as well as other species. Dwarf red legs and scarlets are better choices and will help get rid of uneaten food and detritus. Some astrea or trochus and turbo snails will keep the film algae to a minimum. A conch or two and a cucumber will keep the sand clean.

I also see no mention of a skimmer. Something you may want to consider.

Was considering turbo snails and potentially a few more of the hermits, and I had no idea about the blues... so thank you. :-)

Is a skimmer really necessary for a 29g tank? I know they're widely used on larger tanks, but I didn't realize that they were needed for smaller ones?

Another question: I know that there is a type of conch which is quite deadly, but I don't know what exact species. I just know that if it happens to get you with its hypodermic needle, you're as good as dead. Is this true for all conch species? The cucumbers were another advent which we're exploring... definitely want a fully-encompassing tank, so we'll have to explore what other types of inverts we can get. :-)

[Tall Doll]

Hey.... I am the gf.... just wanted to say thanks for all the input. I am super excited about getting a salt water tank! I have been dreaming of having one for several years now. I hope to be able to photo document the progress from the beginning of cleaning my roommates tank till completion. Can't wait to start. Thank you again for all the advice!!!!!

[Tall Doll]

Oh and I don't think the bf mentioned it yet, but I was interested in adding a sea star just for some variety, and cause they are cute. The Fromia sp seems to be one that stays pretty small. How would that affect potential stocking and etc. How established should the tank be prior to adding him? Any other important info is also appreciated. I am researching as well as my bf, but there is a lot to think about and I want to be sure not to miss anything important. Thank ye!

[Wrench]

A skimmer is necessary on any tank IMO. Once you see and SMELL what it pulls out of the water you'll never run a tank without one. A Coralife Super Skimmer 65 is a good option for that size tank. I had one on my first reef tank and it worked great. You can pick them up new for around $80. I have 3 fighting conchs in my tank. I'm not sure of the dangerous nature of the species available in the hobby. As for the stars they're pretty safe. They are sensitive to water quality so they should be added once the tank has matured

A side note, I would consider running a sump. It makes life MUCH easier and the tank will look much better.

[Tall Doll]

A sump would actually be awesome, however.... I am inheriting the tank from my roommate. I don't have a lot of money to spend so convincing her to give me her tank was a great way to make starting a reef tank more affordable. It is a glass tank and does not currently have a hole in it for the intake, which means that I would have to do an overflow box for the intake. With the number of power outages we have had at our house just in the last year, using an overflow box and a siphon is something that would freak me out. I just don't think it wise. I don't think I could afford a intake system that doesn't implement a siphon. However it is something that I will look into. If you have any other ideas of how to do one let me know. I don't want to risk cracking my tank by trying to drill a hole in the glass or by taking it in and having someone drill the whole... that would shatter my hopes of having a salt water tank for a long while (pun intended). :o)

[Reefscape]

A skimmer is necessary on any tank IMO. Once you see and SMELL what it pulls out of the water you'll never run a tank without one. A Coralife Super Skimmer 65 is a good option for that size tank. I had one on my first reef tank and it worked great. You can pick them up new for around $80. I have 3 fighting conchs in my tank. I'm not sure of the dangerous nature of the species available in the hobby. As for the stars they're pretty safe. They are sensitive to water quality so they should be added once the tank has matured

A side note, I would consider running a sump. It makes life MUCH easier and the tank will look much better.

I disagree with that, but hey, we all have different ways...and no, i dont use a skimmer...

[Reefscape]

Fromia SP of seastars are about one of the safest reef stars you can have...Mainly omnivore, they do like small meaty chunks, macro algae..I would not put one in the tank straight away, as there will be a real lack of "natural" food. Supplimenting its diet with small meaty chunks of clam is good..

Niko

[gatotsu77]

Fromia SP of seastars are about one of the safest reef stars you can have...Mainly omnivore, they do like small meaty chunks, macro algae..I would not put one in the tank straight away, as there will be a real lack of "natural" food. Supplimenting its diet with small meaty chunks of clam is good..

Niko

Just want to make sure I'm not interpreting this incorrectly... the star will not munch on a clam if we put a live one in the tank, but will eat prepared chunks of clam, yes? Or would it snack on the clam?

[Reefscape]

A Fromia will not munch on your living clam, no..just dead chunks of meat...

Niko

[Grins]

I'd recommend against getting the catalina goby as they like a cooler temp.

[gatotsu77]

I'd recommend against getting the catalina goby as they like a cooler temp.

I hadn't realized they liked cooler water until I went and read more about them after reading your post. Thanks for the catch! :D

This might be a dumb question... actually, it is a dumb question, since there are so many variables included, but I'll ask it anyway. As a general guide, what is a "normal" temperature range for a mostly FOWLR tank, given the ideas for stocking we've been playing with, and with the potential to add a few plate corals, the clam discussed earlier, and perhaps some other relatively easy to care for coral? Liveaquaria.com seems to recommend 72-78 degrees farenheit for most of the fish we selected, but I'm prone to not necessarily trust what I read on their site.



Just a minor note for those following this thread, the sw tank may have been placed in the express lane... we got the tank cleaned out last night, and are working on cleaning the stand and placement tonight. :-)

[Wrench]

[QUOTE=atnixon;1244785]I disagree with that, but hey, we all have different ways...and no, i dont use a skimmer...[/QUOTE
Yep, many roads to get to the same place. I used to never use a skimmer but when I switched over to the dark side I noticed improvements in every aspect of my tank. Different strokes I guess.

[gatotsu77]

Yep, many roads to get to the same place. I used to never use a skimmer but when I switched over to the dark side I noticed improvements in every aspect of my tank. Different strokes I guess.

Ok, another dumb question... what exactly does a protein skimmer do? I know that its a form of filtration, but beyond that, I haven't the feintest clue....

[Wrench]

Basically a lot of tiny bubbles are created inside a reaction chamber. Wastes are attracted to and stick to the oustide of the bubbles where water meets air. A cone at the top of the chamber that tapers upwards condenses the foam. At the top of the cone, the bubbles pop releasing the waste where it drains into a collection cup. It takes the place of waves in the ocean.

[gatotsu77]

So the cup has to be emptied periodically?

[Reefscape]

yes, empty the collection as and when required..

Niko