44 gal Over the cycle hump

[tmace64]

-- 6th WEEK CYCLING
HELLO NITRATES !! Appearance of nitrates in test

After 2 days of a mild cloud, today, the tank is clear again, readings;

PH 8.2
AMM 0.25
NO2 2.0
NO3 20

--- Ammonia is dropping, nitrites holding steady and nitrates appear for the first time --- using Saltwater Master liquid test kit. Looks like I'm over the hump. The striped damsel died a week ago. The 2 remaining yellow tails look good. They both feast on the massive amounts of continually growing algae, diatoms and stringy hair algae.......

--TANK SETTING
44 gal pentagon, wet/dry, skimmer, 175w-10,000k MH,
wish/planned as mainly a community with LR, anemone or 2,,, a coral or 2,,, intraverts, basically a "reef - lite" tank......


--QUESTIONS
:confused: Because of the increased nitrites, and the appearance of nitrates, I've shut off my skimmer to allow the growth of nitrates to take care of the nitrites...... okay??

:confused: Do I wait for absolute zero on both ammonia and nitrites before a first water change?? correct??

:confused: I was reading up on removing the bio balls from my wet/dry when adding LR,,,, correct?

:confused: Am I supposed to place crushed coral or other substrate over the sand? I would much prefer to have a sand bottom........ Is it necessary to as well - place "lace" rock underneath the sand?

:confused: FOREVER BATTLE OF THE SALT..... It seems that with evaporation comes increased salt levels. About 4 to 1,, I am adding fresh water to maintain salt levels. I have used distilled water AND treated tap. Is it okay to use tap thats been treated with an off the shelf water conditioner? Is this proper to be replacing evaporation with fresh water like this?? I try to add fresh water slowly in the wet/dry,,,, adding a little every 15 mins or so -- correct?? Is this what dosers are for? What is dosing? Is it necessary for a tank of this size- 44gal ?? Any suggestions on battling salt levels with evaporation??

Thanks so much for your time!! TRULY appreciate it!!
Tod

[kreblak]

Allright, lots of questions, lets see what we can answer for you. First, your question about the growth of nitrates taking care of your nitrites is puzzling to me. I'm not sure exactly what you meant by it. To answer, your nitrite levels are caused by the breakdown of ammonia by your bacterial bed. In turn, a second type of bacteria living in your bacterial bed breaks down nitrite and turns it into nitrate. That is their only relationship. One causes the other, but that is it. I would actually turn the skimmer back on, as it will help remove nitrates from the water. While nitrates aren't nearly as toxic to fish as are ammonia and nitrites, high levels can still be dangerous. Skimming does wonders for keeping nitrate levels down, IMHO.

You may perform a water change at any time. I let my tank cycle fully before doing one. Once I had zeros across the board (excepting nitrates), I did a 25% water change.

Your bio-balls are going to house a lot of your bacterial bed. That is why a lot of people recomend that you cycle the tank without them, so that the majority of your biofilter grows in the substrate. If you remove the balls, you are removing a large portion of the bacteria you have spent the last 6 weeks growing. In theory, the live rock's existing bacteria would replace the bio-balls.

Sand is just fine for your substrate. Some people (myself included) add crushed coral to help with PH buffering. It isn't required, however. For lace rock, most people add the rock before the sand, so that the sand pours in around the base of the rock, and provides it better stability than sitting on top of the sand. This is really important if you have anything that likes to rearreange your rock work (wrasses, triggers, etc.)

Evaporation! It is everyone's enemy. The larger the tank, the less of a problem it becomes, but it is still a problem none the less. Yes, it is okay to add conditioned tap water. Before doing so, however, I would check with your city's water supply folks to see what your levels of silicates and phosphates are. If they are decently high levels, stick with RO/DI water to avoid a massive algae bloom. I add the replacement water to my HOB filter. I run it without media, so it is essentialy a glorified powerhead with a large mixing basin. I usually add water in 64 ounce pourings. I find that this needs to be done roughly every 4 to 5 days.

As for dosing, that is usually done with either calcium or medications. I don't think that a doser would hold enough volume to replace evaporated water reliably in a 44 gallon.

I think that covers it. If I missed something, just ask!

[liquafaction]

Kewl, your answers make me feel better other that the bio balls and water change. I was going to try to answer these last night, but did not want to confuse anyone with wrong answers.

I am using bio balls to cycle, I figured that I would want that bacterial build up somewhere, but did not think about wanting the bacterial build up in my substrate. I was planning on removing them when I purchased live rock.

I figured you would want to do a water change if your nitrate level got to high. I would hate messing up ballanced water just cause I wanted to do a water change.

Tell me this though. In my wet/dry filter, I was under the impression that the top of the filter (a blue cloth like air filter looking thing) was a protien skimmer. Is this a protien skimmer, and is it suitable for skimming? If not, then I need to buy one.

[kreblak]

I don't have a wet/dry filter so I'm not sure exactly you are referring to, liquafaction. However, I can tell you that unless it has a venturi (air hose) and it produces millions of tiny bubbles that cause scum and crap to foam up into a collection cup, you do not have a skimmer. Most likely the blue strip you are talking about is a filter media.

[liquafaction]

Thats what I have read, is that your skimmer produces air bubbles, but I also read........ I think in an adverstisment for a wet/dry (3in1), That the first filter is a protien skimmer.

I guess that I should purchase a real live protien skimmer then.

[BrianH]

krebelak,

There are dosing pumps that draw water/kalk from a container and pump it into your tank. I have one that can do up to 12liters per minute.

Brian

[kreblak]

BrianH,

Huh, haven't seen one of those. It can really sustain 12 liters per minute? That is quite a flow rate! Is it powered by a pump/powerhead or does it operate on it's own?

[liquafaction]

for the aquatically challanged

dosing pumps ????

kalk ????

is this another form of skimming???

[tmace64]

Liquifaction

I ahve the same set up you do,,,,, a wet/dry - and to answer your question, no, the blue cloth-like pad is not a protein skimmer,,, it is merely a second stage pad for filtering out debris. A Protein Skimmer consists of a verticle tube-like chamber, with which a pump draws water into. The pump usually has a "venturi" valve on it --- nuthing complicated,,, this little valve allows air to get pulled in and mixed with the incoming water. This water/air mixture is swirled around the chamber and floats up to create a dry foam at the top. This dry foam pulls out,,,, proteins?? from your water. Simply go to any website dealer of marine products and youll see them everywhere....... These protein skimmers are the same process we use in sewage treatment plants, get one,,,, they make all the difference.

They can get expensive,,,, I paid 75 bucks for mine,,,,, a steal compared to some of the prices i've seen out there

Good luck
Tod

[liquafaction]

After reading this, and yalls input, I have done a little more research. There is a wet/dry with a built in protein skimmer. My mistake..... oops. I did purchase a protein skimmer after I figured this out. The CPR backpacks that a few of you guys recomended said that they are recomended for 60 gallon tanks. I bought a Berlin. I was going to ask for input on this before purchasing, but did not have much more to choose from for 100 gal tank, except a prizm. I have read and heard more bad than good out of the prizms. Hope this works for me.

Yes too high priced for what you get, but the hole hobby is a little pricey huh.

[tmace64]

Oooops, forgot to say thanks kreblak;)

Yes,,,,, you're right about the nitrates,,,,, its NOT them controlling nitrites,,,, rather,,, they - nitrates are a byproduct of nitrites.

--i hope i got that right,,, , or i know someone whos gonna have to stay after!!!!!

thanks so much for your time you are a GREAT BIG HELP,,,,, i hope to someday do the same - look forward to it

--- Very noticable here,,,, Aquarists are truly wonderful people - they're special too,,,,, lol ;)


Tod

[BrianH]

Krebelak,

I have a peristaltic pump from a lab. It works on the same way as the medical dosing pumps you see in the hospital for dosing IV drugs, except with a much higher capacity. Most of the medical pumps have a limit of 300 ml per hour. With mine I can dose anywhere from about 2ml per minute to 12l per minute. If your interested in the medical pumps, look on ebay and do a search in the fish section on dosing pumps. Remember that the best way to dose kalk is during lights out with a slow drip.

Brian

[kreblak]

Thanks for the kind words tmace. Believe me, when I started I had more questions than anyone out there, and that was after reading Fenner and Tullock! If you really want to feel stupid, just wait until you get your first sick fish. I feel like I have done enough reading on and work with parasitic diseases to get a veternary degree! ;)

BrianH,
Veeeeery interesting idea! How did you come up with that? The DIY geek within you must be strong. On another topic, I took a look at your tank pictures and have a question: what types of water out flows do you have in the back, and how do you keep them clear? I am running a set of aquaclear 301 pumps, but the out flow nozzles are constantly becoming clogged with algae, debris, etc.

Liquafaction,
I run a CPR skimmer myself, but I have heard excellent things about Berlins, mostly from folks on these boards.