Fluval 404

[Cypherman]

I've got a Fluval 404 I bought used from a friend and I was wondering what you guys use for media. I plan on using lava rock for the bottom chamber as the biological portion, and a layer of activated carbon for the second chamber. What would you guys use for the last two layers? I was thinking some kind of resin; I've heard there's a rechargeable resin Seachem makes that absorbs ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, and a host of other chemicals all at once...The tank is very lightly stocked at the moment; just three normal and three blue baby (2 inch) jack dempseys and about 20 tetras and other community fish (yes I know how big JD's get and that they will eat tetras so dont bother telling me; stick to the topic ;) ). Thanks for your ideas.

[Cypherman]

Anyone? I was thinking about substituting the activated carbon for Seachem Purigen since Ive heard such good things about it, and adding a layer of those ceramic prefilters that Fluval makes...Still need a fourth component tho. Activated carbon would be somewhat redundant since thats what the Purigen is for, but it would put a final polish on the outflow, not to mention it would last quite awhile...


|-------------------
|Activated carbon?
|-------------------
|Seachem Purigen
|-------------------
|Ceramic Prefilter
|-------------------
|Lava rock
|-------------------

/\ /\
l l
Water Flow

Or perhaps reverse the AC and Purigen since Purigen is reusable but AC is cheap...

[Hebdizzle]

In my 304 I use carbon, filter floss and the premedia.

[scott]

Mine is full of eheim ehfimech for bio filtration and I use AC's for mechanical. I don't use carbon at all.

[ScottoMacD]

In my 403 I have some Ehiem EHFIMECH in the bottom basket for catching all the large crud.

Then in the middle basket I use Eheim EHFISUBSTRAT. Awesome stuff for a good bacerial colony

Then in the top basket I have a huge Hagen sponge that came with the filter. Filters out all the small particules that the others missed. Plus also supports a nice big bacteria colony. If I didn't have that my second choice would be filter floss.

I had a buddy once who used lego pieces in one filter and plastic army men in another filter. Both of them worked great. Just about anything with ridges and corners for the bacteria to cling to will work nicely. You could always use Bio-Balls.

There is no need to put carbon in the filter. You should only be using carbon in your filter when you want to remove and cleanup the tank after medicating.

The 04 series are so much nicer and better than the 03 series. I hate the fact that mine is round. It makes it so bloody hard to get a good grip on it when I have to open it up. What a mess. Where as my square eheim is a breeze to clean. So I can imagine that the square hagen is just as easy to open and clean as the square eheim.

[Nic & Ric]

We put filter floss into the bottom two trays, and the top two trays are filled with Seachem Matrix for biofiltration. We've heard great things about this stuff too. Apparantly it never breaks down and doesn't need replacement. Also, some people claim it lowers the nitrates. Haven't been using it long enough to verify that though.

Seachem Matrix (http://www.mops.ca/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/skus/fm/FMSE-01170.asp?E+scstore)

Ric

[Cypherman]

Do you think the surface area of Seachem exceeds that of natural lava rock? That company seems to make some really good products...Thanks for the great advice guys.

[125gJoe]

On both of my canister filters I have ceramic 'bio-balls' and filter floss. I may put some peat in them too. Water changes and floss changes are enough to keep me from needing those expensive 'resin' or other chemical pads and such...

[Toro Driver]

Most of the stuff I've read including the manual for my 304 suggest the bio media in the top baskets so they get clean oxygen rich water. I do the Filter floss botton, charcol then the bio on the top.

[Wulfy]

Using Carbon is not a good idea.

It only lasts for 1-2 weeks or so.

Also, it will tend to leech the stuff it holds back into the water
after a while so you will get irregular spikes of the stuff
held by carbon.

I took it out of my filter after I got this from a number of sources.

[Cypherman]

But as long as you keep an eye on it activated carbon is undoubtedly a good method to remove organic wastes. My only qualm with it is its lifespan; as you said, only 1-2 weeks, although my tank is lightly stocked at the moment so it will carry over a bit longer. The rechargeable synthetic polymers (Seachem Purigen, for instance) interest me quite a bit...

After thinking about it for a bit, putting the biomedia on top would make more sense...I always thought about how grimy my AC sponges would get from all the growth on the bottom, but that's mostly decomposition bacteria, isnt it?

The filter kinda scares me tho...He sold it to me cuz the O-ring leaked on him and partially flooded his apartment. And if it happened again he'd get evicted, so instead of risking it I got a good deal on it. Of course I have a new O-ring, but that possibility scares me since I wont know about it and the filter could put 30 gallons of water into my cabinet if something went wrong :(

The way it is now:


-----------------------
Lava rock
-----------------------
Filter Floss
-----------------------
Activated Carbon
-----------------------
Ceramic prefilter
-----------------------

[ScottoMacD]

Originally posted by Cypherman
The filter kinda scares me tho...He sold it to me cuz the O-ring leaked on him and partially flooded his apartment.

I have heard horror stories about the older fluvals (03 series ) and leaking. I was told when I got my used 403 to use kid gloves on it.

The newer ones are apparently allot better. Hagen acknowledged the probelms and that was part of the reason for the style change. I wouldn't worry about it.
Like anything you just should pay close attention when putting it back together. Eheims never have been know to leak and I had my 2028 leak on me because I put it together half-assed.

I didn't lose much water but I now pay closer attention to what I'm doing. Live and learn. ;)

As for the carbon. Again. No need for it unless you are cleaning up after a med-treatment. If you want to keep it there only for the extra bacteria colony it will be cheaper in the long run to buy some bio balls or something similar like EHFISUBSTRAT. The carbon is just a waste of money. Just another LFS trick to get customers to spend more money when it isn't warrented.

As another downside. Because of the carbons lifespan. If you do treat the tank with meds and then expect the old carbon to help clean it up. It probably won't because of it's age. Only the new carbon will do the job. So you will have to buy more to get the job done. :(

[125gJoe]

I've never had to use carbon on my 80 gallon. It is useful to remove medications though....

[Cypherman]

Its good for more than that. Activated carbon adsorbs dissolved organics that would otherwise only be removed through water changes or bacterial action. Granted, its not necessary if you're taking good care of your tank, but it isn't a useless thing to have.

[125gJoe]

Originally posted by Cypherman
Its good for more than that. Activated carbon adsorbs dissolved organics that would otherwise only be removed through water changes or bacterial action. Granted, its not necessary if you're taking good care of your tank, but it isn't a useless thing to have. I totally agree... It's been so long since I've used it, I forgot the other benefits... :eek:

[Hebdizzle]

to tell the truth the only reasin I have the carbon in there currently is because it came with the filter and I haven't had to clean it yet :) (haven't owned it long enough)

aaron

[Toro Driver]

Okay, I'm sold. I'll dump the carbon and use some kind of brefitleter like Ehfimech. I'll keep the carbon around for med removal. I read in Drs Foster Smith that the charchol may remove benificial nutrients for plants. Glad I found this thread to wisen me up.

The IFS sure stock alot of charcol though don't they?

[DarthV]

In my fluval 304, I use 2 levels of filter floss and the biomax, no eheim or seachem matrix available around here, media in the top. Seems to do a good job.