need advice with stocking part two, Please help

[psariandras]

I have developed a plan of action for stocking and I would greatly appreciate if you could point out any errors in my planning or better alternatives. I have also have a few questions.

I have done research and read gobs of information, but its seeming like the more I read the less clear things become. People have told me on several occasions that I think too much, and maybe this is a good thing for this hobby :)

I'll explain the situation with the tank before I explain the plan, for the sake of clarity.

THE SITUATION
55 gallon tank
DSB 65-70lbs sand
50-60lbs of man made live rock(I researched this a lot, the rock is safe and cured, but not very live yet)
Tank just cycled(ammonia is at 0.1ppm and nitrates are 10ppm) going to do one last large water change before I start stocking.

THE PLAN
put in some cups of sand from LFS reef tanks
put in some sand sifting inverts(was going to do small gobies, now going to do just snails and hermits)
put in the school of chromis
add the algae eating inverts
add ordamental shrimp
add a royal gramma
in the future as I get better lighting - basic soft corals

QUESTIONS
After I add some cups of LS from the LFS, should I wait a while before I put in sand sifters?

Should I put the "clean up" inverts after or before I add the chromis?
When should I put the ordamental shrimp in?

How can I figure out how much livestock the bacterial colonies I have grown can sustain? I started with 5ppm ammonia two months ago, now it is down to .1ppm(less after my last pre-stock water change)

Should I add some rubble to seed my man made rock, I am not sure if it would help or if the organisms in the DSB will move up into the rocks. If I buy live rock straight from the LFS tank, what is the process to get it into my tank? I still need to acclimate it, but I don't need to do any curing, right?

thanks for any advice and I apologize for such a long post. thanks again :)

[snailrider]

Well I would be patient on stocking.

So on the rock itself, how old is it from manufacture, what ingredients, how was it cured. You basically have uncured base rock from the marine view.

My professional advice is to cure the rock (man made) separately. I say this as I have seen what this rock will do in a young tank with critters. You have to stay on top of things with unbelievable persistance.

I make rock, the thread at RC on DIY rock is good. Some things are left out, and some things are rather tedious. How it acts in your tank will very greatly.

To cure your rock, I would just set up the tank with sand, the man made rock and some live rock. I would not add critters for at least a month, maybe longer. Then add hearty critters first so the bioload can be absorbed and any unforseen happenings will be more forgiven. Plan on lots of water changes.

I have some pics of rock I made in my blog.

Any Pictures?
.

[psariandras]

the MMLR rock has already been cured separatley,with ample time. I also follow the ultimate LR thread. my rocks are the ol'skool method as it is called in that thread, or a slight varitation of.

Can you help with advice on stocking the critters?

[snailrider]

the MMLR rock has already been cured separatley,with ample time. I also follow the ultimate LR thread. my rocks are the ol'skool method as it is called in that thread, or a slight varitation of.

Can you help with advice on stocking the critters?

Again, I must emphasize that it may be cured as in concrete curing, but cured in regards to marine life curing, my understanding is that yours is not.

This MMLR is generally safe for marine life. I have regular river rock, figi, marshal islands rock. They all reacted differently when added to my tank with two damsels and snails etc.

The MMLR will act different as it live cures. This is the concern.

My damsels are hearty so no worries as I can get the water back to normal before they are distressed. If you add delicate fish and you get an unforseen spike you will lose the fish if you are not there for a water change etc.

Every tank will react somewhat different. With 55 gals, you have a little leeway. Maybe add 20 lbs live rock with it. But again, add the least sensitive first, then their bioload will help the MMLR stabalize for future additions.

It's not like you are adding one or two pounds. This does add up in the closed system of a fish tank. Keep an ever mindfull eye on your water conditions.

As far as stocking, hopefully others here can help recommend some critters that will give the best success for you.

But as I said, just add the rock and sand and LR and let that be for a month or so. You can add a dead shrimp every now and again to keep the bacteria happy :)

[psariandras]

it has been cycling with ammonium chorlide for 2 months, ammonia is now at 0.1ppm and nitrate is at ~10ppm. I am going to do a large water change to reduce these before I begin stocking.

[snailrider]

While ammonia and nitrates are great to monitor those were the least of my concerns when adding my NEW MMR sculpture to my tank.

PH and SG are the culprits on mine. I used salt for void in the rock. That is still leeching out and changing my sg slowly. PH was a bit high (8.9) and had to be corrected. (20 ml vinegar and air injection fixed it)

My rock is very new, 1 month old from manufacture, and now in my tank for almost 3 weeks. Yes I rushed it a bit, I need to know worst case scenario. I have only added a big turbo snail since.

It has not been all peachy keen. Diatom blooms and water changes. Sometimes I think the water change made things worse, but the sg was climbing so it had to be changed out.

My stocking is 2 damsels, bumble snail, nassarius snails, turbo snail, green star polyps, and some mushrooms. I have some tiny bivalves also. The polyps are the only things to put up any fuss, and most of that is due to the damsels picking on them (been that way from the day 1).

My tank should really be a FOWLR but I have a few things in there. I would not even dream of adding a tang or angel, water quality fluctuates way too much for those guys. I have added lights and power heads etc, which added to the flux. My tank is about 4 months old.

Here is a pic of my mushrooms, top and lower right (sortof). And yes, I just cleaned the glass 2 days ago and it needs it again. It has been alot of work staying on top of things. But a few here can attest to the fact that I did not start my tank out in an optimal situation :headshake2:

[psariandras]

Did you color your rock and if so how did you color your rock, did you use cement colorant?
Also, I am curious about your method for curing.

In the ultimate DIY thread, some have asserted that colored grout can be used to make rocks.
I'm hoping that my rock will not have any adverse affects as it was created back in the summer. I didn't use salt to increase porosity on the rocks that are in my tank, so I don't have any worries about salt leeching out from salt crystals.

Is is considered bad form to ask several questions in one thread, as I did in this one?Maybe it was a bad idea on my part asking questions in one long, gigantic thread, I think that no one wants to read everything, or that my questions are too newbish to recieve a response, you are the only person to give any advice.
Thank you for your comments, Snailrider. :)

I am not really worried at all about the MMLR, but the stocking is what has me puzzled, I think that I can search through some books, or search this and other forums to find out about stocking.

[snailrider]

Not at this time have I used colorant. I have some, was going to make black rock, but haven't yet. I tried grout, but it did not cure up strong enough. I did one of white glass tile block cement, and that is in a tank now with no effect to water quality as of this writing. I didn't use as much salt on that one, and the cross section of any area is fairly thin.

I like the look of the white.

I really don't think alot of aquariests trust MMLR yet. Alot of variables, and you don't get the hitchikers when getting it you might with LR.

I am seriously thinking of setting up my new 55 g with the use of my rock, playsand and salt mixed water. Make a FOWLR tank, (one fish) and very select, few and quarantined additions.

I have my heart set on a Geribaldi Damsel. I could have a crab or something in this tank, but need to do some research to interesting colder water fish as tankmates for the agressive damsel.

As far as adding the sand then adding sand sifters, you may want to wait 1/2 year for the sand to establish somewhat. I am not sure of the needs of a gobie.

At your stage, I would rent a few damsels with the intention of taking them back. After they have pooped and that has been recycled for a few months, your rock will be in alot better shape. A few crabs to catch the extra food.

Maybe the others are all sleeping and still having their coffee. Personally, I would love to hear some ideas, concerns, suggestions etc.

[psariandras]

I think that I am going to try and buy(or get for free) small amounts of sand from reef tanks from LFS and other people in the area. I may be able to get as many as three or four different sources(there are not many reefers I know in the area).

I was thinking about buying some of the live sand activator from Garf.org for 17 dollars, but i really don't know if 5lbs of the stuff is worth that much or not. If I cannot find sources in my area it may be my only option.

Will it really take half a year to develop infauna? Do you mean 1/2 a year without anything else in the tank?

I was going to put in green chromis to begin with. Those should be analogous to using damsels. The LFS has told me that they will order them for me at $4 each without charging me for shipping, assuming that is true, I think that is a good idea.

What I don't know is if it is bad to add the damsels at the same time as live sand, or if I add live sand, how long I should wait before I add chromis. It seems to me that the chromis won't decimate infauna populations in the DSB. I also don't know if the sand sifting inverts will decimate infauna populations.

I am confused because articles I have read in fish magazines seem to give different information than I have taken from some information here, and although this might be because of my own lack of understand, honestly I don't know what source is more reliable than another.

[psariandras]

I wouldn't mind having a Geribaldi Damsel, but from what I have read they are expensive or hard to find.

[snailrider]

If your tank cycled and you do have live rock with your base rock, a handfull of small chromis should be fine. It will take a little while for the base rock to become live, then you could add more fish. If anything strange happens while the tank adjusts, you may have to do cleaning etc at an elevated level. Then start adding the cleanup after the fish have settled in. I would start with the nassarius snails, a couple at a time. Maybe a turbo or two.

Adding live sand won't hurt, and I would save my 17 bucks and just let things establish on their own. @ 4 months now I am finially seeing my pod population grow. The tiny microfauna in the sand bed will be somewhat slower to propogate. A few different cultures from other folks will work nice for diversity. I hoping my sand establishes enough for seagrass. (maybe a year)

My 55 project is moving along slow, I just repaired the brace last night, and washed up some sand. I am making custom shapes and structures for the rock, and will see what happens using just the MMLR and home depot sand. I may not even seed with LR, but may have too.

I will see if I can set it up feather duster free, bristle worm free, and basically just fish and LR, maybe some cleanup crew. It could be awhile before I get the Geribaldi (maybe a pair)

My third tank will be the reef tank. I heard of a place in Phoenix that has glass reasonable. I shall see what is available in tempered, and then custom build. Haven't figured out the frame work yet.

(btw its a conspiracy :eek3:)