i think its ich?? please HELP

[aznknight]

i recently got 3 baby orandas and one fantail and they reside in a 10 gallon tank........in which i didnt cycle first before putting them in :( ....yah i know its bad mistake.........anyways i have had the fish for about 2 weeks now.......last week........i find to lil green disc shape parasites stuck to my fishes tails.........:mad: and i removed them by hand.......a total of 3 removed........and the fish seem fine but now.........2 of the fish have devloped tiny one specks on the fins.........and i thought it was ICK and went out and bouth quick cure.........and used it for 3 days.........but the spots r still there.........i have changed the water..........clean the gravel a bit..........and add salt and trying another dose of the quick cure............any suggestions to what i can do to make the situation better??? i would love to get advice from u goldfish pros out there =)

[aznknight]

i never thing i would like to ask is.......how r u suppose to feed frozzen food to your fish??? do u let it thaw first??? i purchased these small ice cube shaped froozen food from my local pet store

[avoxo]

Hello aznknight, if your fish have ick, raising the temperature of the tank to 80-85 degrees will quicken the life cycle of the ick. Read the directions of the medication. I have never used medication for ick just a 3-6% salt solution and it takes about 7-10 days to clear up.

Those little green parasites sounds like argulus or fish lice. I would keep a close eye because it reproduces quickly. The white specks on their tails could be argulus. Keep us up to date.

As for the frozen food I take a cup of tank water and add a cube to it. Once it dissolves I add it to the tank.

[aznknight]

i see..........just using salt eh?? i put in 2 spoons of salt..........may i ask how your salt method works?? maybe i will try raising it to 80 degree water

[avoxo]

You should finish the Quick Cure treatment first and if you still have the ick try this (if it is ick).
Salt treatment for ick, do a 40% water change, slowly raise the temperature to 80-85 degrees. Grab a bucket 3/4 full of tank water and add 1 teaspoon of AQUARIUM SALT per gallon of water in your tank (10 gallon tank= 10 teaspoons), mix it well and add the solution to your tank. You will do this 2 more times in 12-hour intervals, so in 36 hours you will have a .3% solution of salt in your tank. Do not do any water changes for 5-7 days feed lightly and it will clear up the ick. The key is to keep the temperature at or above 80 degrees that speeds up the life cycle of the ick. Good luck and keep us up to date

[aznknight]

so with one...bucket.......u spilt it into 3 uses??? or use the 3/4 amount 3 seperate time?

[aznknight]

how can i determine if its ick??? or the other parasite u mention? they look like little grains of salt...........which other proclaim to be ick..........so im not sure.......

[aznknight]

well i finished the quick cure cycle yesterday........which is my 2nd cycle.........and the ich is still there........for now im just going to stick with salt..........and leaving the temp @ 81 degree...........dont wanna use any more quick cure stuff smells.........and i read to much is just harsh on fish gills

[avoxo]

Sorry it took me so long to respond. The bucket should be filled each time you add the salt. As for identifing it I use a small plastic microscope that I paid $15.99 at toys r us and it does the job.

[aznknight]

my tank is currently...........10 gallons and like u said every 12 hours or so.........i changed about............25 to 30% of the water........with water that has been mixed with salt..........and i have used up all the of the big bucket.........now i have left the water as is.....and left the heater on.........and the temp is @ 81.........the heater cant seem to push any warmer.........i have notice very very slight improvement...........seems to be less white dots........the fish is probaly the most active in the tank........even thou the others dont have ich.........anyways the fish with ich is my favorite of the all so i hope i can make it over the hurdle
thanks

[aznknight]

i have already gone thru two 3 day cycle of quick cure and started another one...........u think it was a bad mistake?? =(
another thing i might add......before when first spoted the dots resembled salt...........but now........they seem to be more........rounded???.......like very very small white balls...........is this still classify as ich u think??

[ChilDawg]

Hi, azknight, and thank you for the nice compliments in the pm.

I don't think that "Quick Cure" is adequate for ich as it has a long life-cycle...you can only kill it during the free-swimming stage as it is encysted and resistant to medication in all the other stages...the free-swimming stage is short compared to the other ones, so a three- to four-week treatment is recommended.

[ChilDawg]

In addition, I would recommend that you read this article very carefully before another dose of ich treatment (a prolonged one this time). I think that it is among the most helpful available in the hobby.

As for the other parasitic possibilities, I would recommend reading articles at www.skepticalaquarist.com and seeing if any of these are your parasite in question...

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/othprotist.shtml seems to be along the right lines, but I have some more holistic concerns about the tank.

It is overcrowded. You will need to up the filtration and possibly separate these fish into three completely different tanks...I think that this will help mitigate the problem, but knowing your enemy is a good part of the battle as well! If neither of those sites is correct in diagnosis, I would consider fungus to be a possibility (as you yanked out the green things and fungus is usually a secondary infection at the site of injuries). I would also Google the aforementioned Argulus lice.

HTH,

Matthew

[avoxo]

Hello aznknight, I agree with what chilidog has to say about the tank being overcrowded. I did not want to give you the speech but you got to learn. You already know that it was a mistake to put them in an un-cycled tank and they are or will be overcrowded. You are going to have heath issues because of this. Sooner or later you will need to upgrade the tank or get more tanks. The general rule for goldfish is 10 gallons per fish, anything larger than 4 inches and your talking at least 20-30 gallons per fish because they produce lots and lots of waste.

The only thing you can do right now is to finish the salt treatment of 7 days. Remember 3 teaspoons per gallon. Feed them very very lightly once every 2-3 days. Do 30% water changes every 3-4 days. The puregold and the skepticalaquaist sites are great but here are some more links to help you identify those diseases.
http://www.koivet.com/[/URL] lots and lots of info.
http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/ another good site.
http://www.bristol-aquarists.org.uk/goldfish/info/diseases.htm also very good.
You could also get Fancy Goldfish by Erik Johnson and Richard Hess, this is one of the best goldfish books out there. Wish you luck.

[aznknight]

yah i agree with the overcrowing but i was just a temp sitution
i got a 40 gallon now
just gotta clean it out...........have u ever heard of a product called cycle?? bottle up benefical bacteria whats your opion on it?

[ChilDawg]

I think "Cycle" was pretty well panned at AC, but "Bio-Spira" seems to do pretty well for our members. If you can get that, that would be wonderful for having your cycle done quickly.

[aznknight]

ok so the ich is all gone........pretty much now my baby has black spots all over her tail.......i was told they r ammonia burns..........for some reason she like to.........kinda just idle in 1 spot.......under the filter........watefall........for prolong periods of time...........but now and then if i walk by she will begin to swim.........should i be concern?

[ChilDawg]

Um...who told you that? Do they look like the textbook colouring of the Shubunkins?

[aznknight]

i read on some site its ammonia burn.............no idea
but the tail my my fish has alot of black spots...........

[avoxo]

Hi aznknight, it is hard to say what those black marks are from but the ammonia burns sounds right, your tank is still cycling so you will have problems like this.

Do you have any test kits for your tank, PH, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, gh and kh. If you do telling us the results will help.

[aznknight]

my PH is 7.4 and my ammonia level is 0
i dont have the other kits yet
=( so expensive