Need a hand on sudden death

[Lady Ns]

Our big 2 yr old female JD died today, with no apparent cause. Was wondering how long they lived for and what could possibly kill one of them so easily? The water is fine, it's clean and there is no sign of disease in the tank. The only new fish in it is a single Electric Yellow, which spent a month in a QT. The other occupants of the tank are 2 common plecos, 4 kribs, BN pleco, 3 cories, 1 Eeltail Catfish, 1 Red-Tail Black Shark, 1 Red-Finne Black Shark, 2 Clown Loaches, 2 Chocolate Cichlids, 1 Electric Blue and 2 Silver Dollars. The JD was unmarked and the only odd thing I saw when I took her out was some red swelling around her belly, but I think that was cause she was full of roe. Please do not comment on the types of fish I have in my tank.
If anyone can figure out what might've caused her death, it will be much appreciated. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

[Lupin]

What are the water parameters and size of tank? What do you feed them and how often do you feed? What is your temperature? When was the last water change performed?

[Lady Ns]

I wouldn't know the parameters, I don't test for them, just alkalinitity and acidity. As for the size of the tank, I was told it was 185gal/700L tank, but I think we may have been given wrong measurements, as our fish are apparently too big for a tank that size.
They get fed flakes, pellets, frozen blood worms, freeze dried blood worms, live daphnia, zucchini and they also munch on the plants. They get mostly flakes and pellets, flakes being morning, pellets being in the evening. They get frozen blood worms once a week. Live daphnia twice a week. Freeze dried blood worms once a month, as they don't always eat them.
Temperature is between 29 and 32 degrees celsius, or 84 to 90 farenheight (pardon spelling)
Did a full tank cleaning week and a half ago, removing about 25% of the old water. Am to do another in a few days. Tank is heavily filtered.

[Cathy G]

"I don't know about my water" "I don't know how big my tank is" "Don't talk to me about what fish I have"

But tell me why one died.... Ridiculous question here.

How about, not enough water changes, old tank syndrome, poor water quality, HOT temperatures, too small a tank, disease.
Cathy

[wataugachicken]

so the temperature is way hotter tham it ever should be, you don't know if your tank has ammonia (toxic), nitrite, (toxic) or nitrate (harmful at high levels), you maybe do 25% water changes every other week, you say the tank is heavily filtered except that's a strange claim to make when you don't know what size tank it is, ang since you don't want anybody to comment about your fish, you already know you have some stocking problems but choose to ignore them. did you ever think to measure your tank and actually find out the volume, as you seem to have suspicions about it being 185g?

[fishorama]

In addition to water quality, I suspect bullying could be a factor. The red spot could be from being rammed or smacked down into the gravel, not that I'm commenting on WHICH fish might be to blame.

[Ruben Tolon]

it is a volatile mix since there mbunas but also South American cichlids and other fish as well. After we find out the size and water parameters maybe we can get to the bottom of this mystery.

[Lady Ns]

Okay okay, I really don't want to get ribbed. But the questions I asked about the JD was how long they live for and what diseases they are most prone to.

Also, I DO NOT think I have any stocking problems. People say I do, but I KNOW that I don't. My tank has not seen any disease for three years. I do know about ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, and I tested for them in the first year of the tank.

I am well aware of the types of fish in my tank, the JD I had was a mistake, as my parents got it for one of my birthdays, thinking it would make my tank look more charming. I did try and return it, but my lfs said they wouldn't take it back. Otherwise, I would never have given thought to cichlids, as she was my first.
The most aggressive fish in there is actually a little BN pleco to be honest with you.

However, when I do go to my lfs next, I will buy another test kit and look into some more tanks for the smaller fish, just to put some of you at ease. But seriously, and no offence meant to any of you, but unless yourselves have actually kept all the same fish I have to the extent they are currently at and had problems, I really don't see how you can rib me for how my tank is. I love fish keeping, I think its a great hobby, and if I saw that there was a problem with the tank, I would remedy that problem faster than you would think.

When I started my tank, it was very different to what it is now, its merely evolved with time. I'm also sure some of you have decided to be different and mix types of fish together that supposedly shouldn't be put together.
Besides, I experiment alot, so I've merely found something that works for me.

[Cathy G]

I do know about ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, and I tested for them in the first year of the tank.
and

My tank has not seen any disease for three years

I was ribbing you because you don't know about your tank, you think you do. The tank is 3 years old, you tested the water 2 years ago and you think it is fine. Dynamics change as fish get older. It's great that you haven't had a death in 3 years though.

When asking for help to diagnose a problem, you need to supply information to us. It's not good enough to say 'My water's fine', especially if you haven't tested it for 2 years. Most disease is due to poor water quality and testing your water for the big 3 should be the first step anytime something goes south in your tanks.

Cathy

[mphunk]

:lol: Example of how nice people are on the website.


If you haven't had a fish die in years, good job you are doing something right. Do get a test kit and measure your tank to see how big it is...

calculate the size here:
http://www.firsttankguide.net/calculator.php

Then you'll be able to plan out the stocking of your tank. Your temperature is too high, try dropping it slowly to 78-80. Begin scheduled water changes according to your filtration. That should get you on the right path. Sorry about the JD, Having a fish die is always sad IMO.

[silentskream]

If you haven't had a fish die in years, good job you are doing something right.

I wouldn't go that far.

accidentally lucky maybe, but not doing something right.

[syddakyd]

"I don't know about my water" "I don't know how big my tank is" "Don't talk to me about what fish I have"

But tell me why one died.... Ridiculous question here.

How about, not enough water changes, old tank syndrome, poor water quality, HOT temperatures, too small a tank, disease.
Cathy

perfectly said

[cmartin]

This thread made me realize that it has been a long time since I tested my large tank. I test my QT when it is in use and I test any new tanks I start up for several weeks to ensure that they are very stable. Then if I see any issues the first thing I do is to check the water parms.

Everything has been very stable in my 72 and there have not been any new additions for many months. Everyone is fine, but I have decided to test anyway.

I do weekly WC of at least 30% and a gravel vac. I run 2 filters both rated for a 100 gal tank and I have a 72gal. I also run a UV sterlizer in the tank. That being said, my fish are growing and the bioload is growing. It used to keep the nitrates very very low just doing a 20%-30% WC per week. Now it is looking like I may have to increase either the percentage or increase the frequency.

If I had not read this thread I would have believed that my tank was in great shape too. I certainly snuck up on me...perhaps it snuck up on the original poster as well.

I hope the death was just a matter of old age.

[jpappy789]

While you may have not experienced any losses in a while that doesnt mean that your tank parameters are fine seeing as one of your fish just died. People with well-established tanks run into problems sooner or later so it is not a matter of how long you have had the tank running perfectly. You cant rule anything out at this point as unsuitable levels are the most common factor in aquarium deaths.

I think you have stocking problems. I think there are plenty of people who have kept those types of fish and know well enough to NOT try the mix that you have. But, its your tank, do with it what you please...But I guess thats just my opinion, take it or leave it.

(Somehow I highly doubt that the BN is the most aggressive in the tank unless the cichlids and sharks are juvies...but whatever...)

I just wouldnt be lulled into a false sense of security. You have a lot of higly unpredictable fish in there. You never know when things will turn loose in your tank...

Jack Dempseys live exceptionally long compared to most aquarium fish...roughly 8-10 years max. I highly doubt it was just because of old age.

High temps speeds up fish metabolism (increased breathing and pulse) and there is less dissolved O2 in warmer water.

Are you using water conditioner with the water changes?

[Lady Ns]

The tank has been running for five years, I've only kept cichlids for three, the JD being my first. She would've been 3 yrs old this March. I doubt that my tank has been good for three years purely because of luck. Ever since I had that JD, the only fish I've lost have been two khuli loaches and some krib fry and thats only cause my JD ate them.
I never really had intentions for keeping cichlids to be honest with you. Only cichlids that I had interest in keeping were oscars.

Anyways, I'm not going into my lfs until their plant orders are in, which should only be a few days, so I'm hoping. So I'll get the test kit then or have them test the water for me.

As for the dimentions of my tank:
Width: 180cm
Hieght: 70cm
Depth: 65cm
I'm hoping those are accurate, though they should be, as I used a new tape measurer for them. However, if the tank isn't large enough, I can only remove the smaller fish from the tank and put them in some spare tanks I have, as the larger fish won't be comfortable in the other tanks and they're also too big for the net.

And I was being honest when I said that the BN pleco is the most aggressive, as it charges all the fish, accept for the two common plecos I have. The only other fish that show aggression are the kribs when they're spawning and Cozzi, the larger of the two common plecos, who only charges the eeltail catfish when it's feeding time. The cichlids are actually the most easy going fish in that tank.

Also, I'm buying building supplies shortly, as I'm going to be contructing a fish room in a few months, so I'll be buying alot of new tanks. I will hopefully be able to remove my golden gourami from that tank and get it one of its own. I will probably remove the kribs to their own tanks aswell, as I'm not fond of them being with my loaches. Would the electric blue and the yellow be able to go with the kribs or should they also possibly have their own tanks? The chocolate cichlids are going to stay in the tank they are currently in, so I can keep a close eye on them.

Also, if you could be kind enough, I wouldn't mind knowing the dimetions of a spawning tank for JD's.

[Lupin]

Would the electric blue and the yellow be able to go with the kribs or should they also possibly have their own tanks?
Keep them separated.:)

[wataugachicken]

as far as your tank, the approximate volume is about 215g.

a spawning tank for jack dempseys should be at least a 75.