Canister Opinion

[nattybrack]

There has been some discussion about HOB versus Cannister filters...and the Eheim and Fluval always get mentioned as the cannister of choice. But, and here's the question... I have a 55 w/an emporer 400 and a (soon to be thrown) Whisper 60, and was looking to get a cannister. I have an overstocked mbuna tank, and have thoughts (although no offical plans) of getting a larger, possibly 110 tank in the future (not near future though). I would however like to have the filter be relevant in this larger (albeit dream) tank. Any suggestions / comments? And btwn the 2, Eheim & Fluval (or other) which would you go with?

[VoodooChild]

If you can spring for an Eheim canister, then go for it. You can't beat that German engineering! Fluvals are good canisters too, but I think if you have the money, go for an Eheim canister.

[nattybrack]

Big Al's lists like 4 different Eheim's. Professional, Thermofilter, Ecco and who knows what else. Any suggestions?

http://www.bigalsonline.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?inUID=1059593672.1059593672&inCatID=9:Filters&inSub=20

Also, can I go with a larger cannister, in case I get a bigger tank, or will this pose problems?

[125gJoe]

IMO I'd leave the Fluval out, and look into the Rena Filstar xP canisters.. :cool:

[Rocketman]

I own an Eheim 2026 (Pro II) on a 60 Gallon tank, as well as, (on other tanks,) an Emperor 260, Whisper 40, Aquaclear Mini, and 2 Whisper 'E' Models on tanks at home. At work, one of our tanks has a Fluval 304. I must say, I prefer the Eheim to the Fluval easily. I know you know this, but just a reminder; buy at bigalsonline.com, not some Pet Store.

I work at a Pet Store...

[Hebdizzle]

I don't understand how people think Eheim is "so" much better. I have a Fluval 204 on my 30 gallon and the water stays crystal clear 100% of the time. Spending an extra 150 dollars seems pointless. My fluval is under the tank in the stand and with the cabinet door closed I cannot hear it at all. "Eheims cannot be heard unless you put your ear to the impellar housing" people commonly say. I dont care if I can hear it when I am servicing my tank with the cabinet door open, as long as I cant with it closed. The extra 150 dollars just seems pointless, the fluval hasen't broken or anything.

aaron

[Rocketman]

Our old buddy Aaron has a good point.

But perhaps you should argue with RTR before you go saying Fluvals are 'reliable.' RTR claims that in the 30 some years (or something) that he has been using Eheims not one has broken. Myself, I think they are made of more quality parts. They include primers, and flow indicators, and are better looking...Plus, my Eheim only cost $150 with media. An equivilant, (the FLuval 304 or 404,) is only $70 less without media.


Here's a review of the Fluval MSF Filters (http://www.theaquarians.net/ArticlesandWallpapers/review_fluval_canister_filter.htm)

[Hebdizzle]

You're right about them being better looking... but not by much :) I chose a Fluval partly because of the looks too even though it is under my stand :) Personally I think the Filstars, Via Aqua's, and Eheim Classics are quite ugly.

In that review it said that the Fluval had to be cleaned out every 2 weeks WITH the use of 2 other HOB filters. I think that is a bit biased... he either has WAY too many fish in the tank, doesn't use the correct sized filter or doesn't do water changes or something. Anways, I would rather have to clean out stuff from the filter than from in the tank :) Gives me more confidence in the cleaning ability.

Aaron

[Tightdog1]

on each of my 55g i have a fluval 304 with biowheel pro 60s inline , nbut i would of rather gone with ehiem casue they are just superior to everything, i would get the pro 2 they are such nice filters too! i'm thinkin about switiching to a pro 2 myself in the future once i change my substrate to black onyx.

Ehiem far superior to any other filter.

[1 fish 2 fish]

I gotta agree with joe on this one the filstars are good, I haven't used an ehiem or fluval canister though, but I am happy with the fistar, I think it is cheaper than the other two.

[rdmpe]

I prefer the eheim classic or proII depending on how much money you want to spend.

I have four eheim 2213's. One each on a 29g and 30g and two on a 55g mbuna tank. I think they are great and I only paid about $60 each for them with media and shipping. The absolute best prices I've found are on Ebay. I bought all of mine there, new in factory sealed boxes with all the media etc.

BigAlsOnline is always my first choice after ebay. However, I also like http://www.aquariumpros.com/aquaprostore/
because they take paypal and I sometimes build up a balance there from selling on ebay.

[Rocketman]

I think everyone pretty much agrees Eheims are better filters...it's just whether or not it's worth the cost, and if the other canisters are so much inferior that they should ever be ruled out.

I think the cheaper canisters are better for 30-40 Gallon tanks that are in highly visable places, as they simply look better than a HOB, but aren't worth the $150 cost of an Eheim.

My opinion, anyway

[Hebdizzle]

finally we agree rocketman :)

[Rocketman]

Holla Hebdizzle, Holla.

[RTR]

To be perfectly honest, I could not care less what an external canister looks like - that is not part of my selection process in any way. I care about getting the job done (filtration, preferably efficient filtration), reliability (restart after power down, restart after cleaning, year after year of trouble-free operation), suitabilty for media I like (preferably "permanent"), flexible in setup, and last but far from least - absolute silence in operation.

No other filter on the thread to date can match Eheim on those items. If I can still get replacement parts (o-rings and impellers) for the units I have that are older than many folk on this board, just can companies that themselves are only a few years old hope to compare? Cost? On a life cycle basis, Eheims are the cheapest part of my setups. They have non-trivial startup costs, but vanishing low operating costs and last forever - that is hard to beat.

Everyone is free to chose the brand they prefer, that is the way the world operates. But I'd bet that if the filters in use as this thread is is being written were re-polled in ten years, the large majority if not all of my Eheims will still be running well. I would not make that bet about the other brands under discussion - I have thrown out too many of them not to know better. To be honest, is there any significant difference in the cost of an item that should last 20-30 years whether you have paid $70 or $140 up front? That works out about to a price difference of a fast food lunch a year. No contest for me.

[125gJoe]

Something that comes in real handy when cleaning is --- handles.

The Filstars have them... (Filtar xP's). Fluvals don't.

I only see my filter when cleaning it, so "looks" mean nothing, and I never hear it..

[swampfox25]

What about a Magnum? They are suposed to be good from what my friends have said and I bought a 350 but the tank I put it on is hours old so I could not tell you from my own opinion.

[nattybrack]

I don't really know about the magnum. Maybee someone else can chime in on that.

I do think RTR made a pretty air tight case for the Eheim though. If all the filters work well, look OK, don't make much/any noise, and are priced relatively close, perhaps reliability is the defining quality. Thinkin' I'm gonna go w/the Eheim. Many thanks to all Rdmpe thanks for reminding me to check out ebay, not sure why I always overlook it. :D

[Harry Tolen]

It may be too late to contribute to this discussion, but...

I have both Eheims and Fluvals (4 of each currently in operation). All work well, although my older Eheims (2260's) have gotten much noisier than the older Fluvals (403's). I have de-activated two Eheims for malfeasance in office, and an equal number of Fluvals. My oldest operating Fluvals are around 11 years old, ditto my Eheims. As time goes by, however, I find that I am using more HOB's and fewer canisters, partly because I don't mind the sound of running water (which I know RTR doesn't find as soothing as I do), and because the Hagen HOB's are much more energy efficient (in a house with 40-year-old wiring, that becomes important).

So anyway, back to canisters. I think they're pretty comparable. But that isn't even my point. What I wanted to make sure you understood is that "they" are still selling "obsolete" filters from both manufacturers, and you don't want those at all. In the case of Fluval, avoid (especially on Ebay) the x03 series. Go for the x04's. And in the case of Eheim, don't buy the Ecco or Classic series if you can help it, because their priming and connection features are inferior to the ProII models that are currently "cutting edge" in the Eheim universe.

RTR: my comment above was not meant to disparage your preferences at all, by the way. You just like your fish room(s) quieter than I do. Don't suppose you have any photos you'd care to post, do you? I know that you're also making a durability argument, too, but on that point my experience has just been a little different than yours.

[RTR]

Harry - I have to strongly disagree on the Eheim Classics. They are not as user friendly as the Pros, but they are simpler, quieter, and I suspect will last longer. They are far from out-of-date. They may not be best for novices running a single tank with all-in-one filtration, but for an experienced hobbyist, they are workhorses. For my usage and techniques, the Classic series are actually preferable to the Pros. "Obsolete"? I think not.

I cannot comprehend trading off canisters for HOBs, but that is a personal choice. To each his own.

My tank room is not perfectly quiet. I allow noise there I would not out in the house. I've been setting 4 shrimp tanks recently, all with air-driven sponge filtration, so I have noise there. The circulating range makes noise - the constant level siphons gurgle a bit, as do the overflow boxes, and the final drains to the sump sound very like a noisy HOB (similar delivery). The 55 gal reservoir circulation is set to aerate, so generates noise. Horrible with it all going, but the reservoir is just the first 24 hours of each 72, the shrimp tanks are trials for a few months, so can be endured as trade-off for better control and easier observation. If they work, the setups will be enlarged to another area and largely automated. The overflows etc can be tuned if I take the time, but hopefully will soon go away permanently, so not worth the effort in the home stretch.

There are no pictures, thank goodness - the room is small (8x14'), over crowded, with mazes of tubing and wiring, and would appear the jumble that is in photos. Both my electrician and plumber are horrified at the look, but both agree the place is far above code, it just all shows - there is nothing cosmetic about it - everything is totally exposed, intentionally, for revisions and modifications.

[Rocketman]

Wow RTR...Uh...I hope nothing breaks. That sounds pretty complex. I mean, as I understand you have a big room with...

Whatever, I won't try...

But seriously, how many tanks do you have?

[RTR]

On any given day, 20-25 operating, total census about 40, but almost half in storage. This room is not large, ~15x15, formerly my son's bedroom, now my home office.

[Tightdog1]

presonaly i have heard that magnums arae horrible for continous use. they are better for water polishing. so i have heard but wait till some 1 posts that has 1 to judge.

[fdiaz78]

Originally posted by RTR
On any given day, 20-25 operating, total census about 40, but almost half in storage. This room is not large, ~15x15, formerly my son's bedroom, now my home office.

LOL, That number of tanks is not a hobby, it's an obsession!!!!

:) ;) ;) :p

[JSchmidt]

I use all of my Eheim Classics as bio-only filters, packed with Ehfimech, bioballs or a combination of both. (The sponge prefilters provide mech filtration, but that's not their primary purpose.)

For this type of use, the Classics are perfect. They're silent, dependable and considerably less expensive than the Pro II line. To use a Pro II in this fashion is a waste of my money, I think. If I were using one conventionally, the extra convenience features might be worth it. I really don't find working with the Classics to be that difficult, especially if the double taps are installed. Starting a siphon might be difficult if you haven't mastered it, but I don't even find that to be so difficult anymore.

Eheim is pretty quick to pull any equipment it considers obsolete (witness the disappearance of the Eheim internal canisters), so their continued support and promotion of the Classics suggests they don't see them as obsolete, either...

Jim

[DarthV]

I have both a fluval 304 and an eheim classic 2213... both work good... the double tap connectors on the eheim rock...and I like the fact that it comes with a spraybar...plus it is dead silent. The fluval 304 does have a lot more throughput and has seperate media baskets. I think my next canister will be either a Filstar XP or an Eheim ProII...depends on what my bank account looks like :) The filstar would probably be the best of price, flexibility and quality...but it looks kind of toylike compared to the other brands.

[RTR]

Obsession, addiction, whatever - it keeps me off the streets but commonly in trouble anyway. At least I don't have to worry about my canisters - they just keep on working, year after year, decade after decade. :)

But I freely admit my canister usage is not conventional. My externals are bio-only, and I use internals for mechanical. All that I ask of the canisters is silence and long life, high efficiency is a bonus.