goldfish types in ponds in Canada

[sheloudre]

Ok Canadians, i still need your help. Frost line here is 4' deep, i know i need that depth for at least part of the year-round pond we want to build. If we have a heater, though, do we still need to be below frost line?

My biggest question though - any of you have fantails that winter outside? Or must they come inside for the winter? We would be housing 11 fantails, and 7 comets.

Also, due to the fact that comets move faster - plain and simple - would it be better to build 2 smaller ponds and separate the two types of fish, or can they be combined? I know of smaller pond kits (105g) we can get for rather decent prices, if that would make things simpler, and would just set them up separately.

What is the ideal water volume for goldfish in ponds? I know that in aquariums, it's 20g for first goldfish, and 10g more per fish. Is this the same in ponds?
Am wondering this so i can find a happy medium to deal with, water-volume wise.

[THE V]

In ponds the water requirements for goldfish get to be much greater than aquariums. I wouldn't feel comfortable having more than 1 fish per 50 gallons. I wouldn't try overwintering them with a pond less than the frost line. Most heaters are just designed to leave a small opening at the surface for gas exchange. Also if the power goes out you fish will freeze in a day or two or if it is cold enough a matter of hours. Whereas they can survive several weeks if they have sufficient depth.

In my opinion go 5-6 feet deep or bring them in during the winter.

Fantails should not be kept in ponds as they are very poorly adapted to them. These are genetically very week fish and have been bred at warmer temps in aquariums for many, many, generations.

With 18 goldfish you will need around a 200 gallon tank inside to overwinter them in.

[Sploke]

As far as building ponds goes, one word of advice - build it as large as you possibly can. Even when you do that, when its all done you'll look at it and say, man, I wish I had gone bigger. I agree with what V said....you're going to need to dig at least part of it below the frost line. Comets and most koi should overwinter fine, but some of the fancies would not do as well. and don't rely on a heater, other than keeping a hole in the ice. It would cost you $$$$$$ to actually keep a large volume of water heated enough in very cold ambient weather. I don't use a heater at all in the winter, I have a waterfall year round that keeps a hole in the ice.

[frloplady]

The heater you will need to keep the water warm enough for fancy fantails is gonna be $$$ as was mentioned above. Spa type heaters can be converted for pond use as can pool heaters. Caution in using any copper piping as many of the heaters do as it is toxic to Koi if you should ever get one. The internals on some of those heaters do use copper.

Greenhouse cover in winter and a pond/spa/pool heater would be my suggestion if you want to go that route. I wouldn't think your summer temps are going to be all that warm either and you many need to heat some in summer to keep those fancies happy. They really don't like much below 65-70.

Do you already have these fish? If you want a fantail type fish look for Wakins. Not always easy to find, but a pretty red and white fish (some now are breeding calicos) that is winter hardy with a fan tail.

Fantails such as orandas, ryukins, black moors, telescope fish will not be happy in a cold pond.