Conclusion, HOB filter: advise on power filter upgrade on 55g,29g

[vanpudin]

I started a thread awhile back about advise on power filter upgrades on these tanks. I was givin some great advise on HOB and canister filters.
But I decided to stick with HOB filters for now for 2 reasons. I'm know how to maintain them easily, and the cost is lower.
Right now my 55g has a top fin 60 right now. My 29g has a whisper 40. Basicly the top fin is a Whisper 60 without the extra foam or sponge the whisper comes with. I now realize that extra foam or sponge is better to have be cause it promotes extra bacteria for filtration.
I found a marineland penguin 350 with bio-wheel for $26.99 on petsmart website( about $47.99 in store). Manager at local store says they will honor the price.

Idea #1 is to put new penguin 350 which replaces Top fin 60 in 55g.
then put Top Fin 60 in 29g tank.
Also i would put whisper 40 from 29g and put with 55g with penguin 350.

Idea #2 is to get Pengiun 200 (about $6 cheaper) or Penguin 350 and use on 29g tank.
Then put Whisper 40 from 29g tank and put with Top fin 60 on 55g to have about 30-40% more filtration than just having Top fin 60 alone. Also this way both filters on 55g will share same media type filters.

With either idea, i'll have alot more filtration in both tanks for only about $30.

[BoredAgain]

I'd put the Penguin 350 and Whisper 40 on the 55 and the Top Fin 60 on the 29, if it will fit. So, #1 gets the vote. But, as I've said before, it would be a better idea to have two filters on the 29, but if that is not feasible for you, then stick with #1.

I also have a Top Fin 60 that I just got with my 55 gal last night...which is going to be promptly returned tonight in exchange for the Penguin 350, and I gain $3 to $20 depending on how much it is in the store...most likely closer to $20 which I will spend on a stealth heater. I love the price match and the fact that my wife works there part time, mmmm...15% discount. I saved $100 via sales and the discount on a 55 gal and stand.

When all is said and done, I will have a Penguin 350 and 200 on the 55 gal and a Penguin 100 and Top Fin 30 on the 28 gal...to give you an example of how I'm doing it.

[vanpudin]

Thanks for the reply.
For what it is worth, i do also have a u.g.f. in the 29g which provides aditional air and while i'm sure some bacteria is beneath the u.g.f. So if the powerfilter breaks while i'm at work or out of town, at least their is some water movement with alittle bacteria flowing. Better than nothing. I know most people don't consider u.g.f. a filtration system. I do have a spare whisper 20 and 10 that i could use. The whisper 20 belongs to my 20g tank that i'm trying to sell or give to family. The 20g is good to me as a temporary tank; but i dont need 3 tanks in a small 3br townhome.

[BoredAgain]

You could use the Whisper 20 on the 29 gal also...and the fact that it's running will give you more options for cycled filters to use for when you need a quarantine or hospital tank.

[vanpudin]

Not a bad idea, but i may run out of room on top of tank with 1 long powerfilter and 1 small powerfilter combined. I'll need to measure.

[vanpudin]

Does the bio-wheels on peguin 350 move by the water pushing it or by motor. I never thought of it before. I am thinking by water but not sure. Thanks
Also how quiet are these filters compared to a whisper? Does the bio-wheel make noise?

[BoredAgain]

They move with the current of water.

[vanpudin]

Well i bought the penguin 350 at petsmart. They honered the online price. I only saw 2 of them so i bought the 1 on the higher shelf that looked unopened. Took it home and saw the bio-wheels were missing. Just my luck. I'll get them tomorrow. So i saved over $21 minus the extra gas being used to get it.

[H3D]

My advice is 2 AquaClear 70's for the 55 gallon and 1 AquaClear 70 for the 29 gallon.

[BoredAgain]

Well i bought the penguin 350 at petsmart. They honered the online price. I only saw 2 of them so i bought the 1 on the higher shelf that looked unopened. Took it home and saw the bio-wheels were missing. Just my luck. I'll get them tomorrow. So i saved over $21 minus the extra gas being used to get it.

Yeah, you really gotta open those up and check for all the parts. Not sure why someone would want the bio wheels only, those are supposed to last forever.

[Cory Keeper]

funny thing is... they also sell the bio-wheels individually.

[Rbishop]

Just as long as you realize extra filters and extra media DOES NOT GIVE YOU MORE bacteria.

You will turn over more water and have the capability to filter out large debri faster, but the bacteria in the tank is only going to equal your bio-load. The bacteria will be spread out on more surface area, but you will not have more bacteria.

[vanpudin]

Did not think of it that way. I was thinking that more filtration or extra filter would help keep more bacteria available. I assumed that the better the filtration for the tank, the better the tank parameters would be in check such as less or no ammonia and etc. because of more good bacteria. I'm still learning though. Thanks for the heads up.
I guess a good think about having extra media or more filtration from 2nd filter in tank is that if i replace 1 older media at a time, their will still be enough bacteria in tank and filters not to upset tank parameters and such too much. Would that be correct?.
I do have some ammonia in my tap water.

[vanpudin]

Their will always be a better filter out their or someone may have a different opinion on filtration setups, and thats cool and good. Thank you for your opinion. Your help may make a diff. on a future purchase.
But i feel i've upgraded my 2 tanks filtration by getting this powerfilter, even though i could have bought a better setup. I'm on a budget.
Now i feel i can use my 1st idea as stated in first post in thread. This is a upgrade. Later on i can find another good deal and upgrade more.

Hey can't beat over $20 saving from online price to store price at petsmart.
I'm still learning. Thanks for the posts.

[vanpudin]

Well i installed the penguin 350. on the 55g. It barely fits. The biowheel cover is leaning on the light switch alittle. The motor is alot more quiet than the Topfin 60. But, since the bio-wheels are turning quicklly i'm getting that dripping water sound. When i stop the biowheels, the dripping sound stops. I like how their is room for other media behind the filters. After alittle maintanace i'll put the whisper 40 from 29g on the 55g. Man that Top Fin 60 is noisy.

[BoredAgain]

We've gotten used to the trickle sound that the Penguin makes, I'm sure you will too. If you experiment a bit with the water level, you will find a level that decreases that sound a lot.

[vanpudin]

Thanks, I tried adding some water. May need to add alittle more. The water level is about 1/2'' from top of tank.

[vanpudin]

Will the bio-wheels slow after awhile from the weight of the bacteria growth on them and calcium buildup on the very ends?

[vanpudin]

just added the addtional powerfilter to the 55g. No need for the extra air being pumped in by air pump, so i will be unhooking that setup next. Now the 29g is being powered by the top fin 60. I'll let the undergravel filter setup function for now in the 29g.
If i decide not to use it anymore, does the whole setup need to come out?
will it cause a problem if in their and not being used.
Can i just cap off the tubes somehow?
Sorry for the all the questions

[blasterman_]

I know most people don't consider u.g.f. a filtration system.

Au Contraire. UGFs (run with powerheads) are actually pretty darn efficient mechanical filters. Stir up a tank with an established UGF run with power-heads and the tank will clear in a very short time because all the debris gets sucked back down into the substrate. The problem with a UGF is there's no easy way to get all the trash out of it without a gravel vac. However, don't get me wrong. I see nothing wrong with UGFs if you gravel vac them periodically.


I assumed that the better the filtration for the tank, the better the tank parameters would be in check such as less or no ammonia and etc.

Well, yes and no. First, any type of *mechanical* filter needs to be changed and the media cleaned to have any effect. The reason is you may be 'filtering' the water, but you aren't removing anything from the tank biology. You are just collecting it. If anything, you are increasing the decomposition rate because once trapped inside a filter all this stuff gets a steady current of water over it and this actually increases the rate of decomposition. So, in order to have a positive effect, you need a 'filtration' system that is easily removed and cleaned on a regular basis, whatever it is. Always research this when buying any 'filter' when your intent *is* to filter. Otherwise, I'm a big fan of HOB style filters not because of their 'filtering' ability, but because they have excellent vertical water movement which is great for oxygen supply in your tank. Not so good for C02 supplimented plants.


Will the bio-wheels slow after awhile from the weight of the bacteria growth on them and calcium buildup on the very ends?

Not if you toss them and let your dog play with them, which is what you should do :headshake2:. Biowheels do not increase your biological filter in any way, and their only real benefit is if you have a bare glass tank with a 1,000 feeder goldfish in it. Bacteria are better off living *in* your tank, and with adequate water movement in your tank which you obviously have, they will establish themselves in your gravel without the need for mechanical contraptions invented by marketing people.

[BoredAgain]

Will the bio-wheels slow after awhile from the weight of the bacteria growth on them and calcium buildup on the very ends?

Mine has been running for 3 months, hasn't slowed a bit. I also haven't heard of this problem from people who have been running them for years.



Not if you toss them and let your dog play with them, which is what you should do :headshake2:. Biowheels do not increase your biological filter in any way, and their only real benefit is if you have a bare glass tank with a 1,000 feeder goldfish in it. Bacteria are better off living *in* your tank, and with adequate water movement in your tank which you obviously have, they will establish themselves in your gravel without the need for mechanical contraptions invented by marketing people.

I have to disagree with most of this. The bio-wheel does not increase the biological filter, this is correct, but it does give the bacteria an excellent place to colonize with maximum water and air contact that will never be changed or cleaned. Never messing with the bio-wheel ensures that most of the bacteria will colonize there instead of your filter media that may be changed and will be cleaned, possibly wiping out the whole colony.

Some people just don't believe in the bio-wheel, but even if it doesn't do exactly what it is supposed to, having that extra area for bacteria colonization on a great filter that cost about as much as one that doesn't can't hurt.

[Cory Keeper]

Au Contraire. UGFs (run with powerheads) are actually pretty darn efficient mechanical filters. Stir up a tank with an established UGF run with power-heads and the tank will clear in a very short time because all the debris gets sucked back down into the substrate. The problem with a UGF is there's no easy way to get all the trash out of it without a gravel vac. However, don't get me wrong. I see nothing wrong with UGFs if you gravel vac them periodically.



Well, yes and no. First, any type of *mechanical* filter needs to be changed and the media cleaned to have any effect. The reason is you may be 'filtering' the water, but you aren't removing anything from the tank biology. You are just collecting it. If anything, you are increasing the decomposition rate because once trapped inside a filter all this stuff gets a steady current of water over it and this actually increases the rate of decomposition. So, in order to have a positive effect, you need a 'filtration' system that is easily removed and cleaned on a regular basis, whatever it is. Always research this when buying any 'filter' when your intent *is* to filter. Otherwise, I'm a big fan of HOB style filters not because of their 'filtering' ability, but because they have excellent vertical water movement which is great for oxygen supply in your tank. Not so good for C02 supplimented plants.

Ok, will you please explain here, if a UGF and mechanical filter do the same thing (trap dirt) doesn't a power filter make more sense in the fact that it would VERY easy to remove and dirt trapped? Whereas a UGF requires gravel vacs, something that can get very tedious in a very short time.

If anything, UGFs have much more of a potential to become nitrates factories than any HOB or canister could ever dream of. My canister filter makes it super easy to remove and dirt, plus keeps the sand nice and clean, there is a little waste here and there, but I can get that when doing a PWC. If I had a UGF it would take a 50% WC AT LEAST to remove all the dirt. I had gravel once, no thank you. The amount of dirt that stuff traps is amazing, even when doing a gravel vac.

Now could you PLEASE STOP bashing filters. I'm tired of coming on this board to help someone, only to have to respond to you attacking how I and thousands of others keep our tanks. It is our choice to spend our hard earned money on "contraptions". I'm sick of this. I don't like UGFs, but I don't come on every chance I get to bash them. I might advise against them, but not outright attack like you have done so many times in previous posts.

[vanpudin]

It's all good. We'll all have some diff. opinions. I did'nt see anybody too as being too harsh in this thread, as i sometimes see in others.
Thanks for the help and opinions.