View Full Version : ?over my head?
hope you can help.... our 46 gal marine tank is now 5 months old. Its a joint project between me and my husband; we have kept freshwater tanks together for many years. This is our first marine.
Anyways, since setup I have been preaching the virtues of patience. Successfully until recently. We have a couple of yellow tailed damsels (our cycling guinea pigs). I made everyone wait til the water parameters were to my satisfaction. Two weeks ago we got a leather and a mushroom coral. Good additions for beginners I thought; everything is looking great. We do have a protein skimmer and invested in power compact lighting. I have begun weekly feedings with Marine Snow (phytoplankton).
Our plan included the eventual addition of 2 clownfish (ocellaris or percula, depending on availability). My husband kept talking about an anenome; I discouraged that (or tried to); I was busy formulating a list of possible inverts more suited to beginners. And, I really didn't want to make any more additions for a while longer.
Well, I worked last weekend, and when I came home Saturday my husband was grinning from ear to ear and the kids were excited too. Surprise - there in the tank were 2 ocellaris, happily swimming around a small bubble tip anenome. (They came from the same tank at the LFS)
Well, ok, I confess they did look really cool. The anenome seemed to be well placed, plenty of distance between all the inverts. The first night it moved itself out of the direct light, under the edge of a rock overhang. It sort of has its own cave, which the clowns like too.
The clowns and the damsels quickly made peace, so all seemed well. Then, during the second night (while the lights were still on), the anenome sort of balled up on himself. I thought...Trouble..... an hour later he bloomed again.
When the lights first came on today (they're on a timer) he was balled up, (as were the mushrooms) but he bloomed within 45 minutes. Of course, I am watching him like a hawk, expecting the worse. I would appreciate any advice for what to look for, and how to keep him alive and happy........and whether I should expect doom, or should lighten up and enjoy the show like everyone else is!
VoodooChild
08-04-2003, 4:18 PM
I don't know too much about anenomes, however I do have a hitchhiking one on one of my LR's and at night he'll ball up as well. Same when feeding. 4 months and no problems yet, in fact he's probably doubled in size.
mogurnda
08-04-2003, 4:23 PM
They periodically deflate and inflate. Plus they will barf up the occasional blob of mucus. Nothing to worry about.
How much light have you got? BTAs are about the hardiest of clown hosts, but still need bright light.
It's usually recommended that anemones be added to a well-established tank (>1 year), so swat your husband with a rolled-up newspaper.
Then sit back, enjoy the show and hope for the best.
If you're talking about those things that sort of look like green flowers, I have some of them on my live rock too. The only time I've seen them do what my BTA did, they divided! Now that would be cool if my new anenome decided to do that, but I kind of doubt that's what was happening.
this reply is to Dave - We have a Smart-Lite power compact fixture; the bulb is a 50/50 6700K ultradaylight and Actinic (wavelength looks to be 480nm). 96 watts total, so that puts us over 2 watts per gallon.
They sold the anenome attached to a nice flat piece of rock, which we stacked on another rock; he was orignially about 7 inches off the bottom (tank is 21 inches deep). I expected that he would move to his liking, and wouldn't have been surprised to see him move higher. But he actually seems to act like he wants to be a little bit out of the direct light; his rock forms a shelf and he attached to the underside of that. Like I said, sort of a cave. Right now he looks beautiful, fully extended to the edge of the rock, tentacles wafting away.
Thanks for the other details about inflating, deflating and barfing......I didn't hit my husband with the newspaper, but let's just say the next water change is his!
Hebdizzle
08-04-2003, 6:38 PM
arent 50/50 bulbs usually half 10,000k half actinic?
Originally posted by Hebdizzle
arent 50/50 bulbs usually half 10,000k half actinic?
Not on the Coral Life Smart Lights, I don't think.
all I can tell you is what I'm reading off the box! Was a major improvement over what we had before though. We made the change before getting our shrooms and leather, as we had developed a real interest in the inverts.
Ray Pollett
08-08-2003, 10:24 AM
Your anemone is acting normal from what you say. The lights are good enough for a healthy BTA. I do not use the "Marine Snow (phytoplankton)." I feed mine small pieces of thrawed uncooked Fish, Scallops, Squid, or Shrimp once a week.
Ray
liquafaction
08-08-2003, 11:25 AM
We made the change before getting our shrooms .............
lol, would those be the ones from cow pies.... lmao. I am sorry, I could not help myself.
on a serious note, do anemones acutally move themselves to more suitable areas?
OrionGirl
08-08-2003, 11:35 AM
Yes. Anemones will wander around until they find a place they like. They are a threat to all corals and polyps during this time, as they will sting and kill a coral to take it's place. If an anemone never finds a place it like, it's may continue to wander around, and if conditions change, the anemone will move after months of being in one spot.
cathy
08-08-2003, 12:49 PM
although it happened much sooner than I thought it should have, getting an anenome was a long term goal, and we had discussed and concerned likely spots in our tank for one (so that we wouldn't put something else there). The spot we had picked was in the center of the tank, about 7 inches off the bottom, and where it would get some current, as well as good light.
After his initial move, he's pretty much stayed put, though last nite moved closer to the edge of the rock; more of his whole body was visible. He looks pretty happy to me! (So do the clownfish.)
liquafaction
08-08-2003, 8:29 PM
do they have little legs, or feet, or do the hunker up and shove off. I never realized they acutally moved around, thats to kewl.
OrionGirl
08-08-2003, 10:04 PM
The stump is the foot--they move similar to a snail.
Well, we have made it through a whole week! Everybody's happy, and the anenome seems to be happy with the spot he picked out. No wander lust so far...... I got some frozen food my LFS recommended; they said both the clowns and the anenome will appreciate it. Haven't tried it yet. Will wait a few more days to make sure he's truly settled, before I offer a gourmet meal!
Ray Pollett
08-13-2003, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by cathy
Well, we have made it through a whole week! Everybody's happy, and the anenome seems to be happy with the spot he picked out. No wander lust so far...... I got some frozen food my LFS recommended; they said both the clowns and the anenome will appreciate it. Haven't tried it yet. Will wait a few more days to make sure he's truly settled, before I offer a gourmet meal!
Hi Cathy,
It is much cheaper to buy food for the anemone at a grocery store. Buy uncooked frozen shrimp, squid, clams, scallops, or/and fish. Just shave pieces off the frozen with a sharp knife. The clowns and other fish will love it also.
Ray
I will take you up on your suggestion.... if I can keep my husband from cooking them up first!
I am very conscious of maintaining water quality.... really try not to over feed,but still give good nutrition. Is there any advantage in that respect to the LFS stuff over my grocery store...or does it just boil down to careful practice?
VoodooChild
08-13-2003, 9:03 PM
Careful practice. Fish intended frozen foods may contain some sort of color enhancer but not much else. Usually there is no difference. A cheese grader works nicely as well:)
Ray Pollett
08-14-2003, 7:51 AM
Originally posted by cathy
I will take you up on your suggestion.... if I can keep my husband from cooking them up first!
I am very conscious of maintaining water quality.... really try not to over feed,but still give good nutrition. Is there any advantage in that respect to the LFS stuff over my grocery store...or does it just boil down to careful practice?
Yes careful practice is important. Actually the grocery store ones have the advantage here also. A lot of the LFS frozen is water that some say can foul your tank water; since it has juices from whatever they made the frozen from. The Grocery store should be pure product with out the water.
Ray
cathy
08-21-2003, 12:02 AM
hi all, something new to report. We are nearing the three week mark since Anenome came home with her clowns. We did do a feeding last Saturday night - bits of minced shrimp. Had a bit of a hard time getting the bits close enough to the BTA before the clowns and damsels grabbed the bits, but finally succeeded - those tentacles closed in satisfaction. Happy, Happy, Happy. I felt like a saltwater Emeril Lagasse!
So anyways we have continued with our routine; Phytoplankton suppelment added Wednesday nites, the fish get flakes only til Saturday.....
Well today I noticed one of my clowns was looking a bit portly! This individual was the one the LFS had identified as the "female".When we bought them , they were the last two clowns in the tank, happily circling their BTA. (We brought the whole family home.) We figured they had had enough time to themselves to begin that differentiation and did not question the LFS further on the matter.
so the "female" is the one who hangs near the BTA most of the time; the male is more "out and about". However, off and on during the last week I have noticed them "skittering" near each other. Hard to describe this sidewinding approach. They appear healthy and well so I did not attribute this behaviour to illness. They are eating heartily and competing well with the damsels; we are very controlled with the amount of food distributed.
And yet the female's belly looked a bit bigger than the males tonite. So am I crazy thinking what I am thinking...... ?????? did the skittering mean what I thought it meant?????
Ray Pollett
08-21-2003, 8:14 AM
It may be a prelude. Clowns are egg layers. If it is a prelude they will start cleaning an area. Do not expect any fry from the eggs. They have to go thru a laval stage that will not survive in normal tank set ups.
Best Wishes,
Ray
mogurnda
08-21-2003, 8:54 AM
The "skittering" is classic courtship behavior. My wife refers to it as "seizures." It should be the male that's doing it, because it is supposedly submissive behavior to keep the female from attacking him. They may start to spawn immediately, or it may take over a year of courtship for them to decide to get started. Mine took forever. Now they spawn every 10-12 days. They have become a lot more aggressive now that they're parents, especially the female.
As Ray said, the larvae won't survive in a reef tank. If you are interested, Frank Hoff wrote an excellent book regarding every aspect of keeping and rearing clownfish, called something like "Conditioning and Rearing of Marine Fish, with Emphasis on Marine Clownfish," based on his years of rearing them in aquaculture.
What has stopped me from rearing my clowns is having to culture rotifers for them. I hear rumors of commercial preparations that they will accept, but I'm waiting until they are more than rumors. Menatime, they are just a little extra plankton for the tank.
cathy
08-21-2003, 11:08 AM
Thanks, guys. I haven't witnessed actual spawning so I guess their still in the courtship phase. And yes, it is the male that is skittering up to the female. It is pretty neat to watch them!
So do the eggs hatch into these Larvae? Are the larvae microscopic, or of a visible size?
mogurnda
08-21-2003, 11:14 AM
The eggs start out as orange thingys, maybe the size of millet grains, in a patch a few inches across. They gradually darken, and within a few days you will be able to see their little eyes shining back at you, although it helps to have a magnifying glass. They hatch in a little over a week. The fry are big enough to be visible, but hatch in the middle of the night, so you probably won't see them.
then, I'm assuming, they are prey for the other residents of the tank?
In my freshwater days, I occasionally had breeding fish in a community tank; I didn't do anything special except on one or two occasions. Usually I just let nature take her course. Once in a while a few hardy ones would survive...
I suppose that's too much to hope for with these guys?
OrionGirl
08-21-2003, 1:04 PM
They are eaten by just about anything big enough to suck them down, and many are killed by the filtration. Wet-dry's, powerheads, and pumps are killers.
You will hear of people who peek into theirr sump/refugium and discover some juvenile fish out of a pair in the main tank, but I wouldn't bet on it.
ok, thanks all! You have instilled me with realistic expectations. I'm still more than contented with the fact that all residents look happy and healthy and I am able to maintain good water chemistry!!!! But having a little extra action to watch is fun too.
PS my daughter now has the clownfish eating out of her hand! She pinches a single flake and submerges the tip of her fingers. The damsels are too freaked to come near her, but the clowns have figured out a good situation!
I have to supervise the situation tho; after 2 flakes I make her drop the remaining amount of the daily feeding on the surface, so that there's equal competion among all.