View Full Version : bubbles from gravel
i was looking at my community tank when i suddenly saw 2 bubble arising from the gravel where the cories had just dug. it made me worried because i remembered someone in this forum said that was a bad thing.
could someone enlighten me on what's wrong and is anything going to happen to my tank?
thanks!
Rocketman
08-07-2003, 12:15 PM
When did you put the gravel in the tank? It's possible they are still releasing air bubbles. Also, many fish do this, (although I've never seen my cories do it,) but they will actually release bubbles underwater. I've seen this mostly with Frogs and Danios, however.
NJ Devils Fan
08-07-2003, 5:21 PM
Yea, when was the gravel put in the tank. I also see my cory occasionaly do that. he will shoot up to the top and on the way down, he releases some bubbles. If the gravel has been there for awhile and the a bubble came up, that is not a good thing. There would be a stong possibility that it was an anaerobic spot.(areas of the tank with no circulation. poisonous gases can form at these areas.)
Rocketman and NJ Devils Fan : the gravel has been there for probably 2-3 months already. i know my cories love to shot to the top to get some air and go back down just that when they do that the air bubbles are only at the top! this two air bubbles distinctly came from the bottom! but only two air bubbles. after observing my tank for a long time there was no more. is this a cause for worry?
thanks!
NJ Devils Fan
08-07-2003, 5:49 PM
What size tank, what filtration?
It could be CO2 - bacteria do live in the gravel, and do release CO2, but it usually diffuses out by dssolving.
It could be nitrogen, if the substrate is deep and fairly fine to fine. Denitrification does happen in FW with depth, and the nitrogen gas does come off as bubbles. This is not likely in you tank as it is too new for nitrification to be established.
It could be methane or hydrogen sulfide, but I would not normally expect this this early either. How deep is the substrate? Planted/unplanted? Organics in the susbtrate or not (soil, peat, etc)? Fine, medium, or coarse gravel? If unplanted is it full-depth vacuumed regularly? What is the nitrate titer in the water column?
NJ Devils Fan, RTR: its a 2 ft tank probably about 15 gallons. it has an OTTO internal filter. the substrate is about 2-3cm deep. it is planted. erm i think there is no organics, no soil in my substrate as i do not put fertilisers for the plants because they are low maintance plants!
i use medium gravel and vaccum the surface of the gravel once every two week because i was told not to disturb the gravel as poisonous gas could come out of it.
erm what is a nitrate titer?
my fish are starting to act funnily. they are not interested in eating anymore and i saw another bubble come to the surface this morning. the guppy was lying on the gravel with the cories this morning and i thought it was dead but after i used a net and tried to take it out it swam away. my panda cory died last night. i don't know why. it looked perfectly fine except for the fact it was lying on its side.
if it is indeed poisonous gases what can i do? change the water everyday? or buy some medication?
Sorry, nitrate titer = the concentration of nitrate in the water.
From your description it does sound as though your substrate is foul.
So this is plain gravel ( could you guesstimate size? 4-5mm?), with no supplements added? Are your plants rooted and are they growing well and strongly, and are they a few or is it heavily planted?
If not heavily planted with rooted plants, I think if it were my tank I would do radical breakdown.
Do you have enough buckets to keep the fiish and filter operating a few hours?
If so, I'd move the fish with 50% new water (dechlorinated/ dechloramined and the same temp as the tank) into the bucket(s). After the fish are safely out, pull the plants, rinse under the tap, and layer them on top of the bucket(s) - this will give the fish some security and kept the plants wet. Then vacuum the tank thoroughly (adding more tap water as required), or siphon it out and bucket wash as was done at first set-up. If the gravel has extensive areas of black deposits and smells awful, toss it and replace with new. If it doesn't, wash thoroughly the gravel and tank (tap water), reset the gravel, dechlorinate the water, check the temp, and replace the fish .
Good Luck
RTR : thanks for the help! i did what you suggested moving most of my fishes into my extra tank with new water and anti chlorine. then i proceeded to rake up the gravel with my gravel cleaner doing a complete gravel clean. after that i changed 70% of the water. woke up this morning to find it cloudy so did another 90% water change.
what else should i do? and when can i put my fishes back into the tank?
Dangerdoll
08-09-2003, 9:55 PM
I wouldn't put those fish back into the tank for a while. The problemis the anaerobs coming from the gravel. I just went through the same thing, and wasn't safe until amonth or so. During the fish free month, I had to re-cycle the tank again as if it was a new tank. This involved massive weekly water changes as well as adding the ammonia to help bring things back to normal. Mind you, my water seemed normal before my outbreak but the outlook of the fish wasn't good, proving that things weren't right. After the continued maintenance as if the tank was with fish, I added some bottom feeders (after 3 weeks & just a couple) and a an angel. The water wasn't yet ready and the angel died so I left the tank alone (continuing maintenance) with the bottom feeders for another couple of weeks and tried again. Finally things came back together. I would say keep your fish in the tank they're in for another few weeks (I did mine or what fish had left for a total of 5 weeks) while still continuing maintenance on the main tank.
I have helped a neighbor with foul substrate with no isolation beyond the gravel washing - but that was done in buckets under running tap until I knew it was clean. If the waste is gone, there is nothing to support them. They are not inherently dangerous, they require anoxic conditions to grow and produce the toxic byproducts.
The gravel may still have the nasties there, but the trick is to keep them from re-establishing. For my neighbor's tank this was cutting the gravel bed in half and increasing the gravel vacumming going foreward, but his plants were not strongly rooted plants or really rooted at at. The other factor was cutting the feeding about 75% - that paticular tank was heavily overfed (nitrates >>50ppm) with the substrate just building up more and more waste.
RTR: after i came home today the tank was cloudy again. so i gave up and decided to do what you advise and took out all the water, washed the gravel and refilled the tank. guess i'm back to square one now, recycling the tank. :rolleyes: oh well.
what my concern is that i can never get the gravel totally clean. what i mean is that after numerous and i really do mean numerous fillling up the bucket and washing the gravel and pouring out the water and doing the whole process again. the water after washing the gravel looks clear if you look from down but once you take a cupful of it and put it under the light you see its cloudy. is this okay?
but after i put the gravel back in the tank and refilled it back up the water was clear.
am i doing this right??
thanks!
edited: oh could i start by returning the otto cats since they do not produce much waste?
Rocketman
08-10-2003, 6:50 PM
You may actually want fish that produce more waste - they will help cycle the tank faster.
RTR, correct me on the rest if I'm wrong.
You probably want to replace most of the plants. They may still have some good bacteria on them and will cycle your tank faster. It should cycle fast anyway, as you still have the same filter media in the filter, (I assume.) Make sure to test your Ammonia and Nitrite levels so you know if your tank really is recycling.
If the plants are healthy, they should definitely go back. I assumed that the filter was maintained with the fish - there should not be any recycle issues if the filter has biofiltration (biowheel or rinsed rather than replaced sponges). Otos are delicate fish in the face of changes.
Rocketman, RTR : i replaced my plants and filter media back. i did a nitrite test and it read <0.3 mg/l. i was unable to get the ammonia test kit. however my water has turned slightly cloudy again! :confused: :confused: is it a bacteria boom? i dare not put any of the fishes back in and left them in the holding tank.
can any of you advice me how to deal with this problem?
i greatly appreicate it!
I would not be overly concerned, you are likely to see the sort of transient blooms common in upset tanks. They will fade and the tank will re-stablize. But if you have the filter without the fish, what is keeping the fish? And you will need to feed the filter.
RTR: ever since i changed the water on sunday, the water has been still slightly cloudy. i did another 50% water change but it is still cloudy. i don't really want to put my fish in because i am afraid they might not be able to take it.
when will this transient boom fade away?
thanks for your time and help!