View Full Version : False Ammonia Readinngs
rcaterin1
03-12-2008, 9:06 PM
I was just wondering what would cause a false reading in ammonia???
crazycanuck
03-12-2008, 9:08 PM
going to need some more info...
did this happen to you??
not following instructions on box will do it tho :)
rcaterin1
03-12-2008, 9:46 PM
hahaha... sorry... i know i was vague....well im cycling my tank and i have been testing twice a day.... i am reading <.25 ammonia... 0 nitrite... and ~10 ppm nitrate... the nitrate just showed up this evening though.... shouldnt i have seen a spike in nitrite before i see any nitrate.... i tested the tap water... 0 across the board.... i also use prime to treat the water.....
Beowulff83
03-12-2008, 9:52 PM
you prob missed the nitrite spike. It sounds like you are almost done keep monitoring soon you should see amonia disapear. How are you cycling the tank?
rcaterin1
03-12-2008, 9:56 PM
i have a pleco and some zebra danios in it....im doing 30% Wc in the morning and about 20% in the evening.....
the nitrite could have disappeared that fast??? and if im still showing some ammonia shouldnt i see nitrite???
Beowulff83
03-12-2008, 10:00 PM
did you just recently add a fish or all of those fish? You will only have a small amount of bacteria at first you can overload it if you add even just one fish more than what your bacteria can handle at a time. So if this is the case the extra bio load could have overloaded the amonia eating bacteria and you would still see amonia readings. And yes you can miss the nitrite spike they sometimes happin fast.
rcaterin1
03-12-2008, 11:31 PM
i added them about day after i started cycling......
Mgamer20o0
03-13-2008, 12:35 AM
prime with api can cause false positives....
rcaterin1
03-13-2008, 12:40 AM
hmm maybe there is the problem.... i am using api liquid test kit (using the drops)... is there another test/test kit to confirm the ammonia reading...
im showing around .25 ppm of ammonia (slightly under based on the color card)....and no matter how often i change the water (treating with prime right away obviously) that number never seems to disappear... the fish seem quite happy.... they eat well.... and are very active
Mgamer20o0
03-13-2008, 12:44 AM
try doing 50%-75% water change and still see if its reading. there are other kits out there.
rcaterin1
03-13-2008, 12:48 AM
i have tried 2 30% one right after another and still the ammonia reading is still there..... do you recommend a kit that wont give a false positive
franchisefish
03-13-2008, 1:09 AM
I too had this problem same scenario... same fish...same products what size tank do you have out of cusriosity? Anyways aftre about 12 weeks it was only traces of amonia. Eventually after all is finished and your tank becomes a little more stable these readings should go away. Keep up with the water changes this helps not to stress the bacteria...remember patience is a true virtue when it comes to your first cycle...good luck and hope all works out for you!
rcaterin1
03-13-2008, 1:18 AM
its a 50 gal.....i know i have to be patient..... thanks for the encouragement and well wishes...
Mgamer20o0
03-13-2008, 1:20 AM
any liquid test kit should do. i am not sure what others ones give false positives.
rcaterin1
03-13-2008, 1:24 AM
hmm... maybe i will bring a sample to the LFS and have them test it and see the results compare
Mgamer20o0
03-13-2008, 1:58 AM
wouldnt hurt
Rbishop
03-13-2008, 5:25 AM
Well, it is not really a false positive...the Prime binds it to a non-toxic form, but it is still there.
With that light bio-load and a 30 and a 20% water change daily, you may never see more than what you have been.
Bobnova
03-13-2008, 10:20 AM
You might try testing your tap water for ammonia, it's a common problem.
Also, chloramine in the tap water is broken by prime (and all others) into ammonia, and then from there bound into ammonium.
Ammonium isn't toxic at normal aquarium levels, but it still reads as ammonia on test kits.
Mgamer20o0
03-13-2008, 11:49 AM
You might try testing your tap water for ammonia, it's a common problem
i tested the tap water... 0 across the board.... i also use prime to treat the water.....
.
Star_Rider
03-13-2008, 12:26 PM
most of the reagent test kits (drop tests)we get, test for total ammonia..this is both NH3 +NH4=total ammonia.
NH3 (ammonia) is converted to NH4 when dechlorinators like prime are used.
prime breaks chloramine into chlorine and ammonia..it then removes chlorine and converts NH3 into NH4(ammonium=less toxic than ammonia)
the test kit is reading total ammonia and will give a positive reading for total ammonia.
to check if ammonia i present you can get a test kit that will test specifically for NH3.
I sent an email to Seachem about this; Their MultiTest ammonia test kit will show down to .05 ammonia and won't show "false positives".
After adding Prime(and some hours), my tap water tests near 2.0 for ammonia(API salicylate based kit). How am I supposed to monitor ammonia levels and cycle my tank? I'll probably try and pick up one of Seachem's test kits.
Squawkbert
03-14-2008, 9:53 AM
MG - I've had the opposite w/ Prime and API test kit, but for NO3. I gtt low readings w/ freshly spiked (w/ NO3) aquarium water samples (Prime treated, days earlier).
I'm very confused now. Can a spoiled(expired) test kit cause a way-too-high reading in the presence of any ammonia at all? My tap water tests zero, but after adding prime it tests about 2.0ppm. As a test, I filled my tank and let it sit for a couple of days. Water circulating, prime added, but *nothing* in the tank, completely bare otherwise. API kit now reads just about as dark as it looks like it will go. Easily more than 4.0ppm. I think I'll take some water to a LFS tomorrow, see what they test it at...
(Disclaimer; When I say empty, I mean no fish either. Don't worry, nothing is being harmed except my brain!)
Mgamer20o0
03-15-2008, 2:37 AM
something go on there.... with no fish there should be no ammonia.
rcaterin1
03-15-2008, 2:43 AM
^^^^^^^agreed.... thats sounds strange for sure....
what is it in prime that actually binds the ammonia???
Rbishop
03-15-2008, 6:33 AM
I sent an email to Seachem about this; Their MultiTest ammonia test kit will show down to .05 ammonia and won't show "false positives".
After adding Prime(and some hours), my tap water tests near 2.0 for ammonia(API salicylate based kit). How am I supposed to monitor ammonia levels and cycle my tank? I'll probably try and pick up one of Seachem's test kits.
As long as the ammonia is in a non-toxic form, it shouldn't be an issue. Even with those conditions, in a properly established tank, the readings should be at zero with in 24 hrs.
rbishop; I understand that, but how will I know if the ammonia is in a toxic or non-toxic form? That's my concern with the API test kit thus far. I'm starting to suspect my individual kit, though, and I'm going to have someone else test my water today. 8.0 TA in an empty tank makes no sense :/ This tank is not established, but it hasn't had anything added to it which would add ammonia...
To clarify, what happens when you use Prime is that if you've got chloramine in the water, the prime(or any other dechlorinator) binds with the chlorine and leaves you with ammonia. Now, Prime also detoxifies ammonia so that's fine, but it will cause your TA level to be above 0 even if your tapwater tests 0.
Perhaps an "Ammonia alert" in the tank? They read only free ammonia. I'm just at a loss as to how I determine if my tank is safe if I can't read only free ammonia.
Rbishop
03-15-2008, 9:41 AM
Prime doesn't cause the ammonia level to be high....it binds the toxic form to a non-toxic form. Fish are safe and the ammonia is still available for the bacteria.
So if you are using Prime and you are cycling, with or without fish what is the problem?
Spewn
03-15-2008, 12:32 PM
I understand the chemistry behind prime, and why my water shows positive for ammonia after adding it to my tapwater. That's *not* the issue, I understand that the ammonia will no longer be toxic.
The issue is that I can't know what my free ammonia levels are, and thus, I can't know if the tank is safe for fish. Does that make sense? If I'm testing to ensure the safety of my tank, I need to know the free ammonia level.
Rbishop
03-15-2008, 12:34 PM
No, you don't, if using Prime. You will know you have an active fully established colony if all ammonia disappears in 24 hrs.
shockwave191
03-17-2008, 2:18 PM
I also have somewhat of a similar problem. I am in the process of a fishless cycle. I'm into my 5th week of the fishless cycle. My readings are as follows: Ammonia ~.25-.5ppm, Nitrite ~0-.25ppm, and nitrate ~5ppm (maybe less). My test kit is an api master kit and still in date (has not expired). My question is this shouldn't the ammonia drop to zero first before seeing the nitrite drop close to zero? In other words the ammonia drops then nitrites peaks and drops then nitrates should peak and remain. I assume nothing is wrong and from what I gathered on this forum is that eventually the ammonia will drop and the nitrate will rise to the apropriate level of 20-40ppm. Any comments as to my cycling welcomed. I will not at this time adding any more ammonia (to keep the nitrite colony going) because I still have some ammonia remaining. I normally use amquel plus as my conditioner but, did not (used tetra) because this as well as Prime are known to give false readings after cycling. Again any comments as far as my cycling process are appreciated.
Thanks
Chris