View Full Version : Any breeder out there?
Has any of you managed to breed and successfully sold back your fries to cover at least the maintenance cost of this hobby? If so, I'd like to hear your stories...
It seems that it would be great if you can keep up with the hobby you love so much, and it pays for itself as well in the process!
I guess breeding Platies and hoping to sell 2 weeks old fries to the LFS is not the best way to start... :)
Mgamer20o0
08-10-2003, 4:15 PM
i havet sold any fish to the lfs. i am new to breeding. i am starting easy and working my way up. but i think starting with something easy like Platies are the way to start. bulid a realtionship with the lfs. show them your quality with the cheap stuff first. the way i see it is i would be worry of buying better fish from someone i dont know. they would have idea about quality. i hope to one day be able to breed enough fish so they pay for there up keep.
and at lest the Platies are a start
mogurnda
08-10-2003, 4:45 PM
I've always found cichlids to be an excellent way to get credit. The parents take care of them until they're old enough to trade, and one can usually get a substantial amount for each. It works quite well, with good stock yielding $6-$8 each.
With livebearers, I usually set up a bare-bottom 10 gallon with a sponge filter and heater, and do 50% water changes 1-2 times weekly. Getting them out of the display tank keeps predation down and reduces crowding in the main tank. It has really been a labor of love, though, since I put more into them in terms of food and time than I get back at about 0.25-0.50 per fish.
Thanks for the feedback! :)
Dave, which Cichlids are you referring to? I don't think Kribs will go that high, do they?
mogurnda
08-10-2003, 5:11 PM
What I'm growing right now is Neolamprologus cylindricus. Spawn a little less often than brichardi, but I can get more for each, and they're always in demand. I agree that kribs will be worth less. Maybe other people's stores are more generous, but I usually get about 1/3 to 1/2 the selling price in credit.
Rocketman
08-10-2003, 6:45 PM
I work at an LFS, so I can give you all some advice.
First, shop at the store first! Everyone remembers a destictive customer, (i.e., one who doesn't ask begginner questions.) Also, try to fit a description of your largest tank in somewhere. Most of the people we get are all begginers, (half the people don't have heated tanks but want tropical fish,) and so most other customers, unless they tell us otherwise, we pass off as begginners.
Also, you can start with Platy's, although you may not make much money off them. We price our fish by taking the amount we paid for them and doubling it. Of course, other stores may do it differently, but that is how we do it. And they will expect a higher-quality fish for a lower price - again, buy fish there, (more expert fish, like Oscars and stuff,) so they know you.
Any other questions, feel free to PM me.
I've just started doing this myself. I have L. fuelleborni and some electric yellows that I will be trading to the store for credit in the next couple of months. The owner has already said he will take them and another pet store is also interested in any overstock I will have afterwards.
Rocketman
08-10-2003, 8:06 PM
Alright, good then. Just make sure you give them the good ones, don't give them any mutts. You probably already know that though Nippy.
Same advice for yhbae.
Wow, these are the best information I have seen so far - these info are so hard to come by... :)
So for beginners, after Platies, what would make sense to breed? I guess it needs to be something that is worth more than Platies, but still not near-impossible to breed.
Would one of the Gouramies fit the bill? Any of the Tetras? Angels? Since I have very soft water coming out of my tap (natural pH is 7.2 with no additives), there should be reasonable number of choices... I personally don't mind spending decent amount of time since I seem to enjoy the process of maintaining and watching the aquarium so much... (It started off with my daughter watching "Finding Nemo" movie 2 months ago and I knew nothing about any fish... :D )
Hebdizzle
08-10-2003, 9:24 PM
have fun trying to find female gouramis :( At least around here you can't unless you special order them (most often from the internet)
Also, yhbae, 7.2 ph isn't "very low" for tap water, it is average.
However, you would probably need softer water to breed angels, and some tetras. (neons for instance)
Hebdizzle, I was referring the hardness of the water to be low, rather than pH... My GH is around 70ppm and KH is around 30ppm... With the addition of driftwood, I guess pH will dip below 7.0 which will probably work for breeding some of the species... So far, I am adding some baking soda to increase the KH buffer since I don't need the low pH (for my community tank) but I need some additional buffering.
About female Gouramies, hmm, I should ask the store. I saw a tank full of about 2 inch Pearl Gouramies at my LFS. Are you saying all of them could be male? Does this mean typical breeding process produces much more males than females?
Rocketman
08-10-2003, 10:02 PM
Your best bet will always be to do your own research beforehand. When you ask most LFS employees to identify a female fish for you, (esspicially a Gourami, I don't know a female,) they may just say, "this one," to get you away. Of course, I have never seen this or done it myself, but just another piece of advice.
As for other fish - Discus are always good if you can do it and the LFS will sell them. The only ones an LFS can get for a decent price are not breed for show - therefore they only cost about 8 bucks and can be bought from the LFS for 15-16, (all dollar amounts American,) at least this is the case in our store. To get a professionally bred Discus, the LFS, (and any other person,) would have to go to a professional breeder. As the LFS cannot buy them in bulk any more than the average fishkeeper, they would get no special deal. Further, the LFS being a "middle-man" would further jack up the price so much that it would be impracticle for them to carry the Discus.
The point is, if you could get a reasonable quality Discus to the LFS, I'm sure they would gladly pay $10 each for them, as they would turn around and sell them for at least $20, (and they would get it too.)
Most community fish are in no short supply, and most community fish buyers are begginners who don't care what color their Guppy is. Therefore, there is no money in breeding Fancy Guppies for quality, the same goes for other community fish.
Cichlids, (in most stores,) don't move fast enough to warrant buying from anyone else other than the usual fish distributor - and the Pet Store does not want to breed bad relations with their distributor. So unless you can offer a high-quality fish that the LFS has a lot of requests for, yet their distributor doesn't carry them, this would be a HUGE seller. The LFS will do anything to keep their customers from going to other fish stores to get their fish, and they hate to turn people away.
Also, grown fish are nice sellers. That is, a fish that was in another tank for years but was sold to the LFS. Most stores don't do this, although if you were a breeder and had, say, (10) 6 or 7 inch Bala Sharks, the LFS would probably buy them from you. They determine the price of these "used" fish, and I have sometimes seen it 200% higher than the price for the same fish from the distributor. However, this is both risky and, obviously, time consuming in that you must wait years to reap any rewards.
Also, you can make money on a breeding pair of any fish. Say you have a breeding pair of convicts. The LFS knows they will get 100's of babies from this pair. The babies bring in customers to look at the cute little guys, and they can eventually sell the babies. They can also sell the pair for a rather hefty price, (more depending on the rarety of a breeding pair in that specific species.)
Anything else? Just ask.
Hebdizzle
08-10-2003, 10:07 PM
Rocketman, good post, very good information.
This is a personal question, though, how many tanks do you guys have at your fish store and do u buy fish? :P
Aaron
yashinfan
08-10-2003, 10:09 PM
With my danios I will make a profit in 1.5 months when I sell them. I'm selling the babies to an LFS who offered to pay 25 cents a pair, and I have over 170 from one spawn. That's like 20$. Anyway, I bought the fish originally from a different LFS for 50 cents a fish, so I think that's an amazing price for them to be buying them off me for. (These are zebra danios, by the way) But, I mean, the fish will pay for some part of their cost, but I think after I sell them I will be down only 5$! :> The thing I did way get my friend's tanks that they don't use anymore, so all I had to do was buy the fish and food. That's the way to make money... lol :>
Rocketman
08-10-2003, 10:17 PM
Hebdizzle -
We have 22 Tanks in 2 "sets" for a total of 44 Tanks. Each "set" is self-contained in as both have their own sump. So 22 tanks flow down into a sump, (filtered by a commercial-grade biowheel - just changed the thing today and let me tell it's sweet,) where it is then pumped back into the respective tanks. So, there are two sets of this going on.
I buy fish from my store always. Of course, this isn't that often as a rarely buy fish anymore...I sometimes go to a nearby PetsMart for advice, (in disguise as a normal civilian, maybe someday I will wear my Pet Supplies Plus shirt in there though,) or when I need a fish we don't have or can't order, (i.e. Otos.) They certainly have quality fish and a quaility worker there that knows me and I know her. She knows as much about every fish as we all know about any particular fish - and plants.
A lot of what I wrote earlier is from dealing with PetsMart and another LFS store - Aquanest - in the past however. I've also done 'business' with a few other stores awhile back.
Hebdizzle
08-10-2003, 10:26 PM
sorry Rocketman... last question about your store, how close are you to Clawson (Telegraph and Rodchester rd I think, moved away over 11 years ago)
Visiting my grandma and I may stop by if you're not too far.
:D Aaron
Rocketman
08-10-2003, 10:28 PM
20 Minutes about from Clawson. Maybe 15. Tell your Grandma the store is at Rochester and Auburn Road, right by M-59.
mogurnda
08-11-2003, 6:21 AM
Also, grown fish are nice sellers. I worked at LFSs for 4 years, and we gave low dollar for large fish at both stores. Large fish, especially cichlids, end up literally eating up profits, so I'm surprised that any store would actually want them. Basically it was as a favor for customers who needed to get rid of them. I guess the important point is to know what your local store wants.
Rocketman
08-11-2003, 11:27 AM
Yeah, that's a good point. The LFS I currently work at does not buy back fish. Aquanest, where I used to shop, did. As I said before, they would really charge you for those "grown-up" fish. And I bought more than a few from them...sometimes that is the only way you can get a fish that you want...meaning that if you had bought the fish from the distributor, it would have been eaten.
I still think that if you can breed discus, that would be profitable. But make sure you do it with a pair of Discus that are already breeding - that way you get a high quality product.
Rocketman
08-11-2003, 9:37 PM
I just went to PetsMart and asked her about buying fish. She said that you would have to contact Corporate and talk about selling their entire chain fish. Of course, if you have a few thousand this wouldn't be a problem. The reasoning behind this is that they want you to be able to walk into each store and see the same merchandise, theoretically. But she suggested trying some other smaller stores. She also said that you can count on getting 1/4th of the price that the fish are sold at the store for. HOWEVER she said that as far as Discus are concerned, my proposal was acceptable except for the fact that all the tanks are on the same system and there is no way they can raise the water temperature. Also, they would need a specially designed tank, etc. But, she said you could EASILY get $15 for each Discus anywhere else.
I talked to my manager at work, he said he would buy some Convicts depending on how many Convicts we had in stock at the given time.
yashinfan
08-13-2003, 11:26 AM
My local PetSmart said they would absolutely not buy local bred fish because they have contracts with their providers and obtain ridiculously low prices from them. I've found it is much easier to sell to places like Super Pet and Big Al's (Aquarium Services). I think that WalMart, also, does not buy fish from local breeders. This is just what I've found out from asking around. And I have noticed that stores who sell fish for much more usually pay more than other stores for the same fish :> (That's why Big Al's is good for selling to, but not buying from !)
Hebdizzle
08-13-2003, 8:37 PM
Just a follow-up post Rocketman :
I went to "Atlantis Fish Shoppe" in Clawson and "The Aquarium Place" in Royal Oak, but I wasn't able to make it out your way more. Atlantis is REALLY small but they looked like they had nice corals and stuff for saltwater, however their FW was quite lacking.
The Aquarium Place wasn't too bad... more cichlids than anything. The thing that please me the most was their knowledgeable staff :)
Aaron
Rocketman
08-14-2003, 9:32 AM
Hebdizzle:
I've heard Moby ****'s EDIT(that's moby Dik's) is the best. 100's of tanks, every fish you could want. Also, I hear they're building another fish store where Aquanest, (M-59 and Opdyke) used to be.
caffeine
08-14-2003, 11:32 AM
adding to what yashinfan said, Petsmart also doesn't accept fish from local people because it greatly increases the risk of an outbreak of disease. Medication and dead fish won't help their low prices either.
Rocketman
08-14-2003, 12:02 PM
Yeah, remember what I said about talking to the PetsMart lady? She said that they will buy from you if you sell fish to ALL their stores.
Hebdizzle
08-14-2003, 2:26 PM
Rocketman, Ive been to Moby Diks, and I agree, it is a good shop for livestock, but very lacking on supplies.
Aaron
alexv1n
12-08-2003, 3:03 PM
Originally posted by Hebdizzle
have fun trying to find female gouramis :(
I've bought a pair of dwarf grouramis from an LFS and they have spawned and I managed to raise a few young. I did make a couple mistakes in the process and lost most of them but there are about 10 left which are now several months old.
The most surprising thing is that all 10 young turned out to be females. Not a single male! Does anyone know how this could be? Are females hardier and just out-survived males or the diet/environment were better for females. Just curious. It can't be coincidence. Anyone has any ideas?
Grandmastr
12-08-2003, 6:47 PM
well i know wit kribs, higher ph u get more males or females i forget, and its the opposite when u have a low ph
could be the same wit gournamis' i dunno
matty150
12-08-2003, 7:20 PM
i know alot of stores dont buy back fish and we certainly dont, its just not worth it. fish are pretty cheap whosale and as far as the markup goes i know ours is more than double, it has to be. most fish stores at least triple on fish for markup because you have to account for losses. for instance if we pay .40 cents for a platy we charge 1.79 for it, or .12 cents for a zebra danio we would charge .49 cents.
My LFS pays 1/3 of their cost and that would be enough for me to continue to breed even if they only pay in the form of store credits. This will give me unlimited supply of frozen food, and some equipments...
Unfortunately, even getting 1/3 seem impossible in some regions...
Captain Hook
12-08-2003, 10:43 PM
Rocketman don't think I have seen you post before but thanks for all the information in these thread! Alex my guess as to why you only have females left is that the males killed each other. I know they are very territorial so I'm thinking maybe they were violent towards each other, not sure about this though.
alexv1n
12-08-2003, 11:18 PM
No, they didn't kill each other. They are just 3 months old. However I did notice today that one of the young started to appear readdish and I see a very pale pattern on its fins. I think I was alarmed too early. It looks I may have some males, but they are too young to develop any coloration (even though they are quite big in size - over an inch now in length). They looked all silver just like the female. But I will watch closely and I'm starting to belive there will be more males. :)
Zebra danio, which I was also successful in breeding, had the adult-like coloration from almost the very beginning, that's why I was confused.
I have a really good breeding pair of convicts and being a teenager i don't like to fork out my own money. So these convicts do me good. I sold about 50 convict fry for about $4-$6 each and i got a grand total of $210 which will cover some of the cost of my new tank set up.
Grandmastr
12-09-2003, 10:36 AM
where did u sold them to?
4-6 bucks for convict fry is real good
That is really a good price - my LFS sells convict fries at 60cents (that's Canadian cents!) each!
How big were they?
matty150
12-09-2003, 8:36 PM
4 to 6 bucks each is ridiculous, how long has this place been in business, you can buy convict fry by the dozen for dirt cheap....
mcvancleave
12-09-2003, 9:25 PM
Best info i have seen on a freshwater with lots of comments. I just killed my saltwater tank and took back all my coral and frags back. Sounds like all that post are by great stores i got about $30 for about $350 worth of items :) lol...
Would like a link on some info on one of the hardest fish to breed want a good chalange. Some are like clockwork looking for one of those right PH, water temp, etc..
and also Love the post on the guppies and other livebearers. True on what color they are yet i have seen them $100 for a trio. Love to play with the guppies for all the colors you ca breed out of them.
With all the breaders out there does anyone know where to buy some reasonable priced guppy swordtails.
ScottoMacD
12-09-2003, 9:54 PM
Originally posted by Rhys
I sold about 50 convict fry for about $4-$6 each and i got a grand total of $210 which will cover some of the cost of my new tank set up.
I work at the Big Al's here in Montreal.
I wish that I had your market. We were giving away our convicts here ($1 each) and we still couldn't get rid of them. We were even giving them to people who bought larger tanks from us to cycle their tanks for free. BTW: now they sell for $1.99 Canadian they were $2.99.
Before I started working in the store I would sell my fry and very easily make back more than it cost me to raise them.
I had 5 different species going at one time or another.
Rainbow cichlids
Green severums
JD's
Blue Acaras
Archcentrus Spilurus
Once I became better known locally for my fry. My fish were always welcomed by the stores especially my JD's and Green Severums. They were always taken by the stores and I was paid very nicely for them. They loved them. Basically because I would wait longer than most breeders and suppliers to sell them to the store.
The stores would end up getting a bigger healthier, more colorful fish than anything that the supplier could get them for the price I was charging them. At one point a few summers back the stores were calling me to ask when the next batch was coming.
Now that I work at Big Al's we actively search for the local supplier of any particular fish that we are looking for before we order from the supplier. Some of the reasons being.
1) Cost factor. Locals are always cheaper. No shipping charges, no exchange, no duty or brokerage fees. These all add up and are tacked onto the final price. The less we pay the less we can charge, the more we sell. IE: Blue Rams. Local - 7.99 each. Supplier Rams $9.99 each and the locals were 10X nicer.
2)Healthier fish. No worries about any unknown diseases that could potentially wipe out an entire fish room from cross contamination. There are still some diseases that overseas see and get that we haven't. In fact any tank that has had any overseas fish in it is completely sterilized before any Local or North American supplier fish is placed in it.
3) Less loss. A fish that is bagged and shipped to the store in 2 to 3 hours has a much better chance of surviving than a fish that spends 18 to 30 hours in a bag and box with 150 of his buddies. The way some fish people send fish still amazes me. Ever see a goldfish shippment? 200 medium sized feeders in a freezer bag sized bag (10 inches by 10 inches). There is literally more fish in the bag than water.
4) Purchase volumes. With Local breeders you can order any amount you want. You want 10 fish, you order 10 fish. You pay for 10 fish. With the big guys you can't do that. You have to order a minimum (well you don't have to order, but you will pay for a minimum either way) They are seeling Rams in bunches of 50 you only need 10. You are paying for the 50 so you may as well get the 50. Now if you have a huge order and you want to throw in 10 Rams they will do that but the price for those rams after you add the shipping etc... your final sale price is going to be insanly high. So they had better be some very special rams.
There are a few other reasons that we like local but I figure that you get the jist.
I don't sell them as fry i sell them once they get to an inch long. That way i get more money for them. I have a fry tank where once i know the parents want to breed again i put them in there at about 1 cm long. and i am continually taking fish out of the fry tank and continually putting more in. We are talking $4-$6 australian dollars thank you. I don't just get rid of them as soon as they are born. I care for all fish that i breed. I get very angry if i lose half a spawning.
yhbae
12-10-2003, 12:03 AM
ScottoMacD, where is the store you work for located? I too am living in metro Montreal area but I didn't realize that we have Big Al's here...
alexv1n
12-10-2003, 1:14 AM
We have two Big Al's in Ottawa, so I bet there must be some in Montreal :)
ScottoMacD
12-10-2003, 9:14 AM
Originally posted by yhbae
ScottoMacD, where is the store you work for located? I too am living in metro Montreal area but I didn't realize that we have Big Al's here...
We are in Pointe-Claire. We opened on October 1st. The only one in Quebec.
The addy is
2315G Trans Canada
Pointe-Claire
Tel: 514-428-0040
We are on the service road (Hwy 40) in the New MEGA Mall right next to Boul. Des Sources exit (just west of the overpass on the north side)
If you come in. Ask for me I'm in the fish room everyday except my 2 days off (Thursday's and Saturday's)
Grandmastr
12-10-2003, 12:25 PM
anyone want to give me some convict fry, like enough to get me a pair, i want to use the 2nd gen fry for fish food in my 55 gallon tank
after they start breeding
Originally posted by ScottoMacD
We are in Pointe-Claire. We opened on October 1st. The only one in Quebec.
The addy is
2315G Trans Canada
Pointe-Claire
Tel: 514-428-0040
We are on the service road (Hwy 40) in the New MEGA Mall right next to Boul. Des Sources exit (just west of the overpass on the north side)
If you come in. Ask for me I'm in the fish room everyday except my 2 days off (Thursday's and Saturday's)
Thanks for the info! In fact, I live in West Island, and you are located in between where I live and where I work, so it is perfectly located... I'll give a visit for sure... :D
What are opening hours?
ScottoMacD
12-10-2003, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by yhbae
What are opening hours?
Open everyday at 9:30 except Sunday's 10:00
Close at 6pm except thursday and friday 9pm and weekends 5 pm
Looking forward to meeting you.
Lukara
12-11-2003, 3:18 AM
Oh this is great news! I knew Big Al's was coming here to Montreal, I just didn't know when. Glad to hear it finally happened! I live in the area and will definitely come by!
Originally posted by ScottoMacD
Open everyday at 9:30 except Sunday's 10:00
Close at 6pm except thursday and friday 9pm and weekends 5 pm
Looking forward to meeting you.
Grrr.. Forgot your name by the time I visited your store this evening... :D (Scott, Scott, gotta remember this name, Scott...)
Overall, the store looks very clean and nice selection of fishes. I can see few species that I'd want to pick up in the near future, especially amano shrimps and cardinal tetras.
I am currently looking for a FEMALE blue ram... How come no store carries a female one in this city???
ScottoMacD
12-11-2003, 10:07 PM
We do or at least we did have some female rams????
When you enter the tank room. The first pod on your right. (The one where the mollies and swords are)
The very first tank on the very bottom. There was a tank of local bred blue rams.
Glad you liked the store. Too bad I was off today. I work my days from 9am to 6pm. Come by and see me.
Same goes for anyone else who wants to come by. It'll be nice to put some faces to some names.
yhbae
12-11-2003, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by ScottoMacD
We do or at least we did have some female rams????
When you enter the tank room. The first pod on your right. (The one where the mollies and swords are)
The very first tank on the very bottom. There was a tank of local bred blue rams.
Glad you liked the store. Too bad I was off today. I work my days from 9am to 6pm. Come by and see me.
Same goes for anyone else who wants to come by. It'll be nice to put some faces to some names.
I'll make sure to check out that bottom tank next time I visit...
Thanks for the info!