My 1st ever 20 gallon, working but need advice.

[Intelekt]

So here is a picture of my new 20 gallon, I set it up and decorated it, let it run for about 4 days and then got some fish that i will list at the bottom. I am having a great deal of success in this tank and now have another 10 gallon which i will ask about later. I live in south texas so hard water is an issue that i am having a hard time dealing with. I also have what appears to be a very high level of ammonia in the tank, there are some other worries that deal with the fish so i will list em now.

3 giant danios - 1 blue dwarf gourami - 1 pink kisser gourami - 1 opaline gourami - 1 red wag.

The blue dwarf (Chomsky) has been seemingly biting at the chest of the opaline (Bluestar).. tonight i saw him also go after the kisser (Lipps). I have also noticed the red wag (Survivorman) hanging out at the top of the tank, is that normal or is he reacting to the ammonia? I have no real plants in the tank because i was worried that the hard water would be a problem, maybe i need some for the ammonia levels? my lfs said that my fish should generally adapt quickly to the harder water and that most fish keepers in south texas use treated tap water, not the filtered more expensive and hassle to get home kinda stuff.

Any help you all can give would be great, I want my little friends to have a long healthy and happy life, I feel like i should put some natural stuff in the tank, we got caught up looking at all the things to put in and I like them but feel like some of the natural stuff i see is really cool, im gonna use some for my 10 gallon, currently empty till i get ahold on this tank. thanks for any help you can give!

[captaincaveman9]

the main problem you are having with the fish is common. Male gourami typically do not do well with other male gourami. In all likelihood, two of the gourami will not survive. I would recommend returning two of the gourami. as for the ammonia, your tank is cycling, and you will need to do many water changes until the tank finishes cycling. read the cycling thread in the freshwater newbie forum for all the details. The danios prefer to be in schools, so you may wan a couple more of them. to aid in cycling, you can buy a product called Biospiria, it'll be refergerated in select fish stores, and will help speed up the cycling process.

this is the thread on cycling
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84598

[kj5kb]

Keep Changing the water, you are doing a fishy cycle...

How hard IS is the water??? #s ???

If the lfs kept them in tap water, HOPEFULLY they were acclimated OK, and that should be a moot point.

Sounds like a dominance/pecking order thing among the gouramis. maybe add some bottomless clay pots or plants for cover.

The platy hanging out near the surface is probly OK if it looks ok otherwise...it might be avoiding the gouramis. Platys are fine in hard water.

Not sure why hard water would be a plant problem...we have pretty hard water here in NE Ohio, and plants grow fine. Unless there is something weird with your water, you may have received bad advice. Some hornwort or anacharis would look great in there.

[crazycanuck]

hey nice job! ive never kept kissing gouramis but i know they can be quite agressive towards others... one of the stores in my area has a 100 gallon with a couple of those suckers at a foot long or so... i dont know,yours may stop growing when hes to big for the tank,you should find out from somebody whos kept them.....

i hope you get everything straitened out! this is a wonderful hobby and stick with it!:)

[Intelekt]

thanks for all the really quick responses, I have had the tank for about a month and thought the cycling process was over, i will keep testing the water and doing partial changes regularly, is aprox. 4-5 gal at a time ok? i heard no more than 10-30 percent but again my lfs hasnt always sent me in the right direction.. there are better ones further from me which i will be going to more often. anyway, if i put the blue dwarf gourami in another tank, the other two seem to get along well.. would that possibly be a fix? im guessing there is no way for them to learn to live together other than possible cover as was suggested, an option i will pursue quickly. if i were to put the blue dwarf in another tank is it possible to find a female and breed them? this was my intent for my second 10 gal tank, and is that to small for breeding this kind of fish? if i need to post some of this elsewhere let me know, and again thanks for all the feedback.

[crazycanuck]

id say 5 gallons a week would be good.... and i bred a pair of dwarfs in a 10 gal about 6 months ago,got rid of them after tho... it was a little hard to do,lots of plants and conditioning ,foods etc.

[captaincaveman9]

breeding will be fine in a 10. keep an eye on the other two gourami in the tank after you move the blue. you will still have nasty fights with the two. one thing that helps is cover and lots of plants, if they can lose complete eyesight of each other they will temporarily stop fighting.

[OldMan47]

Change as much water as it takes to get the ammonia under .25 ppm. That could easily take several 50% changes if you have let it get away from you with small cjanges. As long as the water temperature matches the tank temp and you use a dechlorinator, it will stress the fish much less than high ammonia levels.
If you are still seeing ammonia, your tank is not cycled. When it is, your ammonia and nitrites will both be undetecable. The little that is produced will be processed by the bacteria before it is high enough for you to detect it.

[Coler]

move out the Kisser sooner rather than later - it needs a far bigger tank than a 20 gallon

[Danyal]

of that whole list you've got only 2 fish are really suitable for that tank, the dwarf gourami and the platy, the kissing gourami is going to get over a foot long and need a 55g min, the opaline gourami is going to get about 5~6" long and should probably be in a 20g, the giant danios are going to be 4~5" and need a 4' tank(can be kept in a 3' but do far better in longer tanks, too active) i'd return them soon and get some smaller danios or more platies once your done with the cycle.

[Intelekt]

well im not sure about alot of what im hearing, i think between the 10 gal and 20 gallon i have the fish i have can be kept according to others, just trying to be sure about certain things, like that the kisser will take over a year to get that big and that the opaline will do fine in the 20 gallon with the danios and the platy, the blue dwarf is the bully, he is moving to the 10 gallon this evening and may possibly have a mate if i can find a female, however until my first tank is stable i will probably not be mating the dwarfs, so is any of what im saying making sense or should i really get a 55gallon?

[kj5kb]

We had a kissing gourami in a 75G at work that got almost 6". For a fish that LOOKS like they should be nice, they sure ain't. You may want to find that a new home...

Plants...I'm sure your pond places are open year-round...how about a big bunch of anacharis in there to help moderate the cycling? Oughta cost about $5-7 for a really big bunch. If too long, cut in half and make 2 bunches...
I find the 'plants won't grow in hard water' odd....I sure folks around there fill their small ponds with tap water from the hose, right?

[Rbishop]

Your tank and even with the addition of a ten are totally inappropriate for your current stocking.

[Dwarf Puffers]

Do a 50% water change immediately, and continue with them every day until there is a noticable amount of nitrates and no ammonia & nitrites. Your opaline gourami can get 6" long, and your kissing gourami 12". Take both of those fish back. The giant danios should really have a 30g+, and a school of 6. The best thing to do would be to take them back and replace them with zebra danios, pearl danios, white clouds, rasboras, or small tetras in a school of 8.

A 10 gallon will be fine for breeding dwarf gouramis, but do you have everything required? Frozen/live food, infusoria for the young, tiny live foods for them as they grow, lots of live plants, etc? The male may also go after the female.

[Intelekt]

ok so i have a few options for a fix and a few more questions. I now have the option to get a 55 gallon tank from a friend, would this be enough space for my fish? I have had all the fish other than the 2 recently added danios making a total of 5 danios, LFS said 6 is bad, either 7 or 5 but try not to keep even numbers, anyone else heard this?

I also put sand in the bottom of my 10 gallon and if i move an ornament the entire tank clouds... is that normal? I feel like I am getting some bad info from this LFS so I talked to some guys at a different one, they do mostly saltwater but were saying the same as what some people here are.

I think I am going to get the 55 gallon, It comes with all the equipment and 2 algae feeders, that are fairly grown, I am worried that getting a 55 gallon will put me in over my head on the maintenence, but ive been told bigger tanks are actually easier to maintain, any truth to this?

The blue dwarf has some sort of bump now on his left side, at certain angles it looks like a sore, the LFS I bought it from doesnt take fish back after 1 week, not exactly sure what to do at this point, too many options and too many fish apparently

any help you can give would be great in fixing the situation. :help:

[Bnoble]

BTW, nice tank

[wwg]

I think the 55 is still going to be too small for the kissing gourami.Big tanks are said to be easier because when you change the water the water parameters will be slightly affected

[feemia]

I think you'll be much happier with the 55 gallon. Tank maintenance isn't any more difficult on larger tanks. It just means you'll have heavier buckets to carry when you do water changes. :)

If you add plenty of plants/decorations to the 55 it might solve the agression problem with the dwarf gourami. You'll also have room to add more giant danios so that you have a school of 6-8. They'll be much happier that way.

I've heard of kissing gourami becoming very agressive when they get bigger. It's hard to predict with fish. Their personalities varies as much as humans. The one that I have in my 60 gallon spends most of his time hiding in the corner and never seems to notice the other fish, but, a few years before I adopted him he killed one of his tankmates.