New to Planted Freshwater Aquarium

[timhook22]

I started my 10gal freshwater aquarium back up after trying my hand at SW. I now fully understand the monetary commitment a SW tank is... Anyways I decided to go planted this time. I have an 18 watt florescent bulb running for lighting, and I have heard that 2-3 watts per gallon is high lighting so will this be enough to see decent growth or should I be looking for some other kind of lighting?(SUGGESTIONS PLEASE!!!!) Also, I am using tap water and distilling it a day or two to get rid of the majority of harmful chemicals, is this sufficient or should I be making the weekly trips to meijer for RO/DI water? Your comments are greatly appreciated. I have been reading as much as I can on the topics but can't find a definite answer to my questions... Thanks again!

[rcaterin1]

what type of plants are you going to plant

[tanker]

1) Distilling water?? How are you distilling it?? Just use prime or any good water conditioner.
2) 2-3 watts per gall is good (I have about 400 watts in my 100gal.).
3) With high lights you need CO2--but CO2 is good even with low light plants.

[Mgamer20o0]

i would also just use prime no need to distilling water. that light should be ok for low light plants.

[timhook22]

so what kind of lighting should I be looking for? Any examples would be great! Thanks!

[Mgamer20o0]

many people use those cfl bulbs from walmart. the reg screw in socket ones. might have to get a new hood or retro fit it.

[timhook22]

What about this?

http://store.seacorals.net/20coaq28wsil.html

[OldMan47]

The 50/50 bulb is a SW thing. It will only giveyou half the wattage as usable for plants. The blue light will do nothing for the plants. As Mgamer said, you have enough light for low light plants already. You might want to look around and see if any of those would suit you. When you go to medium or high light, you get to use fretilizers and CO2 and all the fun that goes with trying to keep the algae to a minimum while getting your plants to grow. I am seriously considering downgrading my lights because I went to far at about 2 1/2 WPG on a 40 breeder. Now I am dealing with blue/green algae and everything that goes with that. The rest of my tanks have a little to a lot less WPG, from 1 to about 1 3/4, and are much less trouble.

[timhook22]

1) Distilling water?? How are you distilling it?? Just use prime or any good water conditioner.
2) 2-3 watts per gall is good (I have about 400 watts in my 100gal.).
3) With high lights you need CO2--but CO2 is good even with low light plants.

By "distilling" I mean letting the water sit in jugs for a few days. I have used water conditioners before, but I wasn't sure if those would hurt plants.

[BoredAgain]

so what kind of lighting should I be looking for? Any examples would be great! Thanks!

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1347442&postcount=6

You can do more with this setup...CFLs are great and come in a variety of watts.

[BoredAgain]

By "distilling" I mean letting the water sit in jugs for a few days. I have used water conditioners before, but I wasn't sure if those would hurt plants.
That doesn't rid the water of much besides chlorine. Get yourself some Prime.

[timhook22]

Can I see a pic of your tank you have the hood running on? Thanks - Tim

[Mgamer20o0]

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k225/mgamer20o0/tanks/redtank02.jpg

i would treat the water to be on the safe side.

[Diann62]

I have 110 gallon that I started a few weeks ago. This is my first time with real plants. My LFS gave me some good advice. I use 1 watt/gallon and my plants are absolutely thriving. I fertilize twice a week and use flourite as my substrate. (read up about flourite before using it) The plants I have are: amazon sword, Indian fern, anubia nana, microsorum windelov, large onion, rotala indica,alternathera and elodea densa. They are all rooting with what I'm using.

[timhook22]

what are you fertilizing with?

[timhook22]

Here's what I have so far.... your comments are appreciated!

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff264/timhook22/IMG_0743.jpg

[Reddog80p]

Is that an incadescent hood?

[oscaremmy]

Your plants look healthy enough so far. I would take the lead off the bunch though, either using gravel or a rock to pin the plants to the bottom. Your wood is great - use it for tying java fern to it...use fine fishing line to tie it on there.

Lots of useful advice on this thread - just leaving tap water uncovered for 24 hours should see all the chlorine disappear, but using Prime will condition it and protect the fish. Even though I have reverse osmosis in our drinking water, which is what I use for water changes, I still add prime at every water change. Also you need to regularly fertilize the plants using a suitable fert for aquariums. I use API's Leaf Zone but there are other good ones also.

[oscaremmy]

If you are going to add C02 (I use the Nutrafin Natural Plant System), you might not want to keep your air pump/diffuser running - the key is to get the CO2 to diffuse in the water, so water movement should be minimal, or the CO2 will disperse at the surface before it can benefit the plants.

[timhook22]

Is that an incadescent hood?

No, it is the basic fluorescent hood the tank came with.

[timhook22]

If you are going to add C02 (I use the Nutrafin Natural Plant System), you might not want to keep your air pump/diffuser running - the key is to get the CO2 to diffuse in the water, so water movement should be minimal, or the CO2 will disperse at the surface before it can benefit the plants.

I have thought about adding CO2, but I would need some direction(if the advice is free, I would appreciate it;) ) haha about how much does it cost? thanks for the information and comments! - Tim

[oscaremmy]

The unit I use costs about $30 - it is never going to do what a top-notch CO2 system does, with all kinds of regulators and diffusers and reactors, but I just can't afford to go down that route for now. Maybe a system will come up cheap on CL or something! I bought mine from one of my local fish stores, having seen their planted tanks using the identical system. It has made a huge difference to the health of my plants - very rich green, good growth already, after only a couple of weeks using it (and that with a UGF)!! I just had to cut my hornwort back because it was getting too dense across the top of the tank, was sneidng down growth by about 3 inches! I will post update pics tomorrow on my 10g planted. I dumped the hornwort cuttings into my newly planted 10g as shown here...
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144968&page=4

I will add the same CO2 system to this when I get paid at the end of this month!

I would recommend some form of CO2 to anyone who is serious about growing plants.

[tanker]

I would recommend some form of CO2 to anyone who is serious about growing plants.


AMEN!!

[timhook22]

Ok, well I did some online shopping and found a Nutrafin CO2 system for $18 at http://pet-king.stores.yahoo.net/15561176903.html and refills for $4 at http://pet-king.stores.yahoo.net/15561176958.html So I hope someone else can use this and get in on the great deal! I also bought a incandescent hood... I can't wait until the items get here! :grinyes:

[oscaremmy]

Ok, well I did some online shopping and found a Nutrafin CO2 system for $18 at http://pet-king.stores.yahoo.net/15561176903.html and refills for $4 at http://pet-king.stores.yahoo.net/15561176958.html So I hope someone else can use this and get in on the great deal! I also bought a incandescent hood... I can't wait until the items get here! :grinyes:

That is a very good deal. I was in PetSmart today and they wanted $33.00+ for the same unit!!! I was told on another thread to make my own, so I chugged a 2L bottle of BIG RED soda (burp) and am now contemplating the monumental task ahead of me - drilling a hole in a pop cap and sealing a length of tubing into the hole. That's a tough call for a desk-jockey :) Apparently all you do then is hurl a half pound of live yeast, 2 pounds of sugar and a pint of warm water into it and then rebuild the dividing wall when the explosion tears a hole through it. (Only kidding, it would just be superficial structural damage and potential fatalities within a two-mile radius). He he he. I think I should look up the quantities...they don't seem quite right to me...:eek:

[lizziotti]

If you are going to add C02 (I use the Nutrafin Natural Plant System), you might not want to keep your air pump/diffuser running - the key is to get the CO2 to diffuse in the water, so water movement should be minimal, or the CO2 will disperse at the surface before it can benefit the plants.


I don't mean to chime in here but should the air pump be run at night with CO2? I was curious about that and figured its not really highjacking since the answer can help the original poster as well so I hope I'm not being a jerk here! Thanks I'm finding this thread very helpful!

[tanker]

You really do not need an air-pump at all, but if you must--Put it on a timer to come on only at night (say 9pm to 6am??).

[oscaremmy]

You really do not need an air-pump at all, but if you must--Put it on a timer to come on only at night (say 9pm to 6am??).

Yep - good advice.

I have an UGF and HOB filter running, so have no choice but to move water, this might mean my CO2 levels are not elevating much, which would explain my rapidly growing and still hyperactive fish!

[timhook22]

I just did a water change and noticed alot of die-off on my micro swords(almost a ghost white version of the green parts of the plants) and dying roots on my money wart... Is my light too low with a 15 Watt Flora Life bulb? I used flourite for my substrate with only 2 plants so I haven't started dosing with flourish yet... Any advice/similar experiences?

[nderouch]

Ok, well I did some online shopping and found a Nutrafin CO2 system for $18 at http://pet-king.stores.yahoo.net/15561176903.html and refills for $4 at http://pet-king.stores.yahoo.net/15561176958.html So I hope someone else can use this and get in on the great deal! I also bought a incandescent hood... I can't wait until the items get here! :grinyes:

not to hijack the thread, but will this setup work in my 29g tank? it says up to 20g, but right now i have no CO2 so I figure this would be an improvement right?

[timhook22]

My guess is that it would be an improvement but at the same time not as beneficial as CO2 could be if the system was for larger tanks....

[oscaremmy]

I just did a water change and noticed alot of die-off on my micro swords(almost a ghost white version of the green parts of the plants) and dying roots on my money wart... Is my light too low with a 15 Watt Flora Life bulb? I used flourite for my substrate with only 2 plants so I haven't started dosing with flourish yet... Any advice/similar experiences?

Even with flourite, I still give full strength ferts, plus 2.6 watts per gallon and I would go higher if I could find brighter compact flourescents! I think you need more light - 15w is not going to be enough for any but low light plants.

[timhook22]

Even with flourite, I still give full strength ferts, plus 2.6 watts per gallon and I would go higher if I could find brighter compact flourescents! I think you need more light - 15w is not going to be enough for any but low light plants.

I have an incandescent hood on the way with 2 25watt bulbs... Im assuming this should be enough?... I also have flourite coming, they were both on sale at drsfostersmith.com! Should be here tomorrow afternoon, I'll post pics then! Is the incandescent hood enough do you think?

[oscaremmy]

I have an incandescent hood on the way with 2 25watt bulbs... Im assuming this should be enough?... I also have flourite coming, they were both on sale at drsfostersmith.com! Should be here tomorrow afternoon, I'll post pics then! Is the incandescent hood enough do you think?

Wow...50w yes! 5 watts a gallon is good. I am jealous! :)

[oscaremmy]

With the CFs, they are not quite as efficient as tubes at getting light down into the tank, but you should still easily get over 4 watts per gallon. With flourite and ferts, you'll need to make sure you don't overfeed with that light level, or you'll have algae growing in no time. Regular vacuuming during water changes will help. A lighting timer may also be helpful to allow precise control over the dosage of lighting. That can wait if you are generally around at home and aren't tempted to leave the lights on for 18 hours as I have sometimes done (fish need their beauty sleep).

[timhook22]

Well, I have a light timer because I had a reef aquarium for about 5 months and it was one item I knew would come in handy later... I just did a water change today... I set up a 10gal tank for my sister and gave her my old fish because I bought them for her at the beginning and wanted my own fish. I just happened to come across a sale on neon tetras for $0.50 apiece... pretty good deal so I have 5 + a pleco. I also removed the Air pump and gave it to my sister to get ready for my Nutrafin CO2 system!

[timhook22]

Just a quick edit, I have FLOURISH on the way, I already have Flourite for my substrate haha DUH

[timhook22]

I got all my items today EXCEPT my CO2 system... anyone have good DIY CO2 instructions?

[oscaremmy]

Do a search on aquatic plants. This was easier to construct using soda bottles, air line and aquarium sealant than I had imagined. It takes under a half hour, even for a DIY Jonah like me! Then you just need a jar or pack of live dry yeast, sugar and lukewarm water. Presto!

[timhook22]

What do you use to diffuse it?

[timhook22]

So I have my DIY CO2 system setup and no bubbles yet... I hope they will come along soon...

[lizziotti]

yeah mine took aliitle while but now the are flowing they get stuck though?

[oscaremmy]

yeah mine took aliitle while but now the are flowing they get stuck though?


If they get stuck in contact with your tank water, that's a good thing...means more will be dissolved into the water. Wish mine would stick!

[oscaremmy]

Timhook22, my CO2 system took a few hours to start working. As long as there are no leaks and you used lukewarm water, you will be fine.

[oscaremmy]

What do you use to diffuse it?

I used a tiny plastic funnel I had for some dog medication (cleaned, of course, don't want barking fish). I inverted that and used airline clips (dirt cheap with a package of 8 suction pads at PetSmart) to hold it in place. This puts a large surface area of CO2 (about 1.5-inches diameter) in contact with the water. Slow bubble rate, because of force of the diameter of water acting against the gas in this bell, but a lot of gas/water contact. Too early to say if this works well yet!

[timhook22]

Well I woke up this morning and I have a pretty steady stream of bubbles! I just stuck an airstone on the end until I rig something up for a diffuser! Thanks for everyones advice!

[leocom2000]

How about a pic of the new setup?

[timhook22]

Ok, well here is the tank:
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff264/timhook22/IMG_0785.jpg

and here is the CO2 "setup":
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff264/timhook22/IMG_0787.jpg

[timhook22]

Any ideas for me to do with my new ball of java moss? Thanks

[timhook22]

I used a tiny plastic funnel I had for some dog medication (cleaned, of course, don't want barking fish). I inverted that and used airline clips (dirt cheap with a package of 8 suction pads at PetSmart) to hold it in place.

Do you mean that you attached your airline hose to the funnel end, and inverted it underwater?

[oscaremmy]

Do you mean that you attached your airline hose to the funnel end, and inverted it underwater?

Yep, but scotch that idea...turns out the surface area underwater was creating too much back pressure so the CO2 wasn't getting through at all. I made up a fresh batch of sugar and yeast solution today and restarted it as I had replanted the tank. Now I just have an open air tube inserted amongst denser vegetation so the bubbles take a longer time to get to the surface. I can see I will end up having to buy a proper diffuser...trying to save money here! :)

[timhook22]

I was thinking of taking some kind of cup and placing it upside down on the surface of the water over the place where the CO2 is coming out and the cup will trap the CO2 and displace the old CO2 as the new floats to the surface... just a thought

[oscaremmy]

That's effectively what I had hoped to achieve, using the inverted funnel notion (it just happened to be a neat fit inside an air line). But the advantage of your system is that the CO2 is relatively unimpeded, so it would work, for sure. I think that this is similar to the method used by others. I have seen suggestions of cutting the base off a clear plastic bottle and attaching that to the side of the tank (e.g. back) underwater, to form a bell. Use suction cups and aquarium sealant to secure the bell. Then just put the open end of the CO2 line underneath it and it will fill with CO2 and displace bubbles, but will have a large surface area of CO2 in contact with water for gaseous exchange to take place. Before I do anything like that, I want to be able to measure the dissolved CO2 in my tanks, so will get a KH test kit. This site then tells you how to calculate the CO2 and even has a calculator once you know your other parameters: http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm

Hope that helps. Cheers.

[0live]

if you fed the airline all the way through the funnel an siliconed it in place so that the widest part of the funnel is 1/2" above the end of the tube, chances are, you'd have a pretty good passive diffuser on your hands.

I personally use a small ball jar set on its side to act as a little passive diffuser in the 10g.. works well, but i like my nutrafin ladder.

[oscaremmy]

if you fed the airline all the way through the funnel an siliconed it in place so that the widest part of the funnel is 1/2" above the end of the tube, chances are, you'd have a pretty good passive diffuser on your hands.

I personally use a small ball jar set on its side to act as a little passive diffuser in the 10g.. works well, but i like my nutrafin ladder.

Thanks Olive...I didn't think of that. Very smart. Will do that! I'll post a pic, too, because if it works well, it's a heck of a lot cheaper than buying glass diffusers! :)