Confusing Water Parameters

[mseckmann]

After keeping about 5-7 guppies alive for a year, I'm finally starting to try and take good care of my fish and new mystery snail. The snail started to ooze something that looked like mucus, and its friend died, so I've moved it to a separate jar filled with bottled water, which I'm changing often, until I can get my tank safe. Has anyone ever seen snails with snot before?

So now I'm trying to deduce what is wrong with my tank, and got an API testing kit.
The tank had a pH of 7.8, ammonia between .25 and .5 ppm, nitrite at 0, and nitrate at 10 ppm.
The tap water has the same pH and the same ammonia levels, which doesn't sound right.
Then, I tested the tap water after I had treated it with Prime - which I thought would render the ammonia invisible to two-liquid ammonia testers, and the ammonia was still there! Am I wrong that the Prime detoxified ammonia won't show up on the test? Could there maybe be something wrong with the test kit and therefore ammonia is "showing up" when it isn't?

I've also had live plants in there for about two weeks and they haven't changed the ammonia levels either.
:help:

[rcaterin1]

prime does detoxify... but it does not remove the ammonia.... just turns it to a non toxic form, ammonium.... i have the api test kit and they are know to give false positives for ammonia....api tests for all forms of ammonia which is why you are still getting a reading

[FireDancer7905]

Welcome Ms. Eckmann!!!!!

Good to see you on here! :) I've no idea about your snail, but I forgot to tell you last week that they are known escape artists. My good friend, Michael Scofield, the blue snail, escaped many times and was replaced many times, until finally getting really lost under the kitty toys, where he dried up. Sooooo....keep a lid on your little friend! :)

~brandy

[FireDancer7905]

OK, I feel responsible for getting you into the testing, etc, so I've been doing alot of reading here on AC to try and help you out.....

Based on this thread http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142876&highlight=tap+reading+ammonia and many others, I gather that if you are using Prime then the ammonia is converted to a safe form, and won't hurt your fish.

It will, at this point, show up on the tests. After 24-36 hours the bacteria colony (in your filter, mainly) will "eat" that converted 'safe' ammonia and you should get a reading of 0 with any test kit you use.

If your bacteria colony does not consume all the ammonia, i.e. you are able to detect it, then your tank is not cycled fully.

Somebody correct me if I have misread the info here, I just teach Language Arts, the chemistry bit always befuddled me a tad!

~brandy

p.s. I will bring you filter seedings if your tank needs them! :)

[The Zigman]

The tap water has the same pH and the same ammonia levels, which doesn't sound right.

:help:
Your Tap water has .25 ammonia?

[BoredAgain]

Your Tap water has .25 ammonia?

Mine does too...nothing to worry about. If the tank is cycled, you shouldn't even see a reading in the tank if doing a 15% to 25% WC.

[msjinkzd]

The snail is probably producing mucus in response to the ammonia in the tank. Get some of jensons bio media to help seed the tank.

[jm1212]

a cycled tank shouldnt have any problem cycling out that much ammonia between weekly water changes...how big is the tank?

[mseckmann]

Many questions, so many topics in my reply:

* I was weirded out by the ammonia in the tap water too; if I remember to bring in the distilled to school, I'll test that later this week. It might just be the test showing ammonia.

* I've been adding treated tap water to the snail tank rather than bottled water (which I checked for zero sodium) and the snail has some mucus again, so that seems to be evidence that there is ammonia in the tap water.

* It's a 10 gallon tank, I've had it for about a year though the current water has only been around since September (but it traveled moist) which made me think it should have already cycled naturally, but I didn't get the kit until jenson started getting involved... although, the real impetus for the kit was the poor snotty snails. I change 2-3 gallons a week when cleaning the gravel - I hadn't cleaned the gravel until a few weeks ago either so I figure I should clean it more often at first to get all that old guck out of there.

* I've also only been heating the water for about 3 weeks now, before that they were at room temperature, which I believe I read increases the toxicity.

Maybe I need those filter seeds...

[rcaterin1]

was there anything in the tank from September??? just because it traveled moist doesnt mean the bacteria is kept alive.... it still needs to be fed with some sort of nitrogen source in order to stay alive

[Mgamer20o0]

whats in the tank now?

[Spewn]

Every thread I read about strange ammonia test results, the poster is using an API master test kit. Every single thing I can find on google talking about a problem with ammonia testing; API.

I'm returning my API kit tomorrow, but I have a couple pieces of advice;

First, the API kit *will* read detoxified ammonia...eventually. That is to say, the binding prime(or whatever your water conditioner is) has on the ammonia gets "broken down" and the kit will read positive for ammonia. What you can read on the internet(mostly) suggests that a salicylate based kit(like the API kit) shouldn't read detoxified ammonia; It does.(This is according to seachem based on how prime works)

An "Ammonia Alert" in the tank is nice to have as it only reads free ammonia, lasts about a year. If yours doesn't seem to work right when you get it(mine didn't), it may simply be old or contaminated; Call 1-888-SEACHEM and tell them what's going on, they'll send you a new one.

lol@filter seeds :D "Seeding" a filter refers to populating it with a small amount of beneficial bacteria from an established tank(some of that tank's biomedia, filter squeezin's, etc). Much like seeding a field or a garden, the bacteria will grow and multiply and over time give you a filter full. This takes far less time than allowing them to grow on their own, which can take 6-8 weeks.

[BoredAgain]

The API kits are fine, after you realize that it does register ammonium. Don't see the fuss really.

[Spewn]

Beyond the fact that the API kits seem to be the most complained about kits around, there's the fact that their colour charts are difficult to read where it counts; The low end of the Ammonia scale, in particular. The lowest level it can detect is .25, and the colour difference between zero and .25 is small, I find it very difficult to read. The colours they use and the range between them is...not good. The seachem test I referred to uses three distinct(greyish-green, light aqua, a dark almost purple blue) colours, I haven't ever had any trouble reading it.

I may indeed keep the API test kit, simply so that I can monitor higher ammonia levels during cycling etc, but as far as my eyes are concerned it's useless for concentrations under 1ppm. If you don't have any trouble, that's great. I'm not suggesting that everyone should run out and trash/return their API kits, but I find the low range of the ammonia test(IMO one of the more important things to be able to read precisely) difficult/impossible to read. Is it yellow? Or is there just not enough green in my light? That's frustrating for me, and I'd prefer easier readings.

/rant off
:P

[BoredAgain]

I'm sure that API is the most complained about because it is the most used, and people like to complain. I've had no issues using this kit, never had an issue distinguishing the colors on the cards, perhaps it's your lighting. Hope you have better luck with it in the future.

Maybe one day I'll give the Seachem kit (is it a kit?) a try, I do love their products.

[Spewn]

Seachem has different products, an in-tank monitor was all a local store had, but it's reported to work quite well and as I've had no issues with Seachem(and their support is second to none), I decided to try it. First one I got was a dud, second one works beautifully. The in-tank unit registers .05, .2 and .5ppm of free ammonia, reaction time on rising ammonia is ~15 minutes(that's to "full" value, you'll see it change from "safe" to reading a trace amount very quickly if ammonia becomes present.)

Seachem also makes test kits, but I'm not aware of a master kit(it would be very expensive). The ammonia test kit provides the ability to test both free and total ammonia. In addition, it comes with a reference sample which you can use to guarantee your test kit is working properly. If this fails, seachem will be happy to send you replacement pieces for whatever you need(says the faq, and my experience with them so far). Their Multitest: Ammonia kit will probably cost as much as or more than API's master kit. However, the Seachem kit reads to a much lower level of ammonia making it much more useful for detecting toxic levels to fish(.05). The Seachem kit, from the instructions, doesn't appear to rely on your ability to measure anything; One of the problems with trying to get a proper colour reading from the other kits.


Call me anal if you want, but $30 for an ammonia test kit is hardly a lot IMO, it's just that there are so many cheap kits out there. A 5lb piece of driftwood is going to cost me more than that :P But like I said, if you like your API kit and are able to read it well, keep it. I don't like it, and that may come down to simple personal preference.

[nderouch]

I am a relative newbie as well.

Other than Ammonia, what should I be testing my water for?

[BoredAgain]

I am a relative newbie as well.

Other than Ammonia, what should I be testing my water for?

To start, read this: http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84598

Once you get a better understanding of the cycle, Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate, then you can move on to testing for pH, gH, kH, and others.

[mseckmann]

*Tank has had the guppies since September.

*I think the problem with the kit is that the other information I had searched for (no, really, I did!) said that kits with multiple reagents wouldn't show the ammonium, and it wasn't clear anywhere that API does in fact show ammonium concentrations.

*Spewn: I'm not the Language Arts teacher, jensons is...

*Today I got a very clear 0 Ammonia reading - it was clear bright yellow. So Bubbles the snail is in there for the night and we'll see if (s)he (I think I saw his boy part, but that might not have been it) is all mucusy or not in the morning. There's always more bottled water. Looks like I may have some bacteria in there after all... plus I cleaned off not just brown diatoms today but also something bright green on the walls, which seems like a good thing since it happened along with the ammonia reading...