How big will they get?

[cmartin]

I have 3 marbled angels that I picked up just before Christmas. They were only about the size of a dime then (body wise).

They have grown an amazing amount since them - now all 3 are different sizes...one is double the size of the others.

I still have them in my 30 gal QT. (I had 4 Bolivan Rams who all passed due to worms and the Angels were in the same tank. I treated the tank, but in Canada it is difficult to get the type of medication that really works. So the Rams did not make it likely due to how badly they were infested by the time I recognized what it was and was able to find medication for it.

The Angels have not shown any sign of problems, but I thought a longer than usually QT was needed.

Since they seem healthy, perpetually hungry, and growing like weeds...I thought it was time to put them something a little bigger. I have a hex that I need to clean up that should do nicely.

How large will these angels get? One of them is now about 4 inches - including the fins....body is about the size of a silver dollar - coin - not fish http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif.

How old/big before they start to pair up? If I end up with a pair - then they will take over the hex and the 'odd man out' will go into my 72. I have read that they don't always pair off - if that is the case, should I consider getting a few more to spread out the aggression?

Currently feeding freeze dried bloodworms, flake, and frozen bloodworm.

Any other advice would be appreciated.

Sorry no pics - camera is dead.

[NeonFlux]

Well, 4 inches? They might still be growing to 7 inches...Which I find quite scary as a matter of fact lol. I have never seen matured max sized angels before.

[crazycanuck]

i saw mature angels once at a LFS display tank,dayuum wer they big! lmao

[NeonFlux]

Orly how much were they

[gatotsu77]

Did I understand correctly that you have 3 angels in a 30g hex tank, and are contemplating adding more? I'd strongly advise against it... If you happen to get a pair, there will be nowhere for the others to take refuge, which may lead to their deaths. I'm not exactly certain that it would be wise to have angels in your 72 either, but then based on the stocking selection you have at present time, you may begin to see it develop its own issues. (namely, the lack of other fish aside from a very fat and full BGK) I'm not sure a 30g hex would be able to support anything more than 2 adult angels, and IMHO, even that is iffy.

[jm1212]

i agree with gatotsu. you shouldnt add any more angels to your tank, nor should you move any to the 72. in fact, i would take two of your angels out. i have one angel in my 37 gallon right now and i wouldnt add any more.

ever pair is different. some dont take long to form.

angels will easily reach 6", not including fins.

[NeonFlux]

Aye.... that quite big imo.

Im very used to seeing them 2 inches and 3 inches for the tail fin. Not 8 inches with teh fin... zoiks

[Star_Rider]

30 hex is not a great tank..but you may be able to house a single angel.

the hex is a poor design..I keep pairs in a 29.
but would much prefer a 40 if I had the option.

angels can get quite large.. I have seen large full grown males hit10-11" including fins with a body at the very least 6" round.

I currently have a male Wild P.Scalare(Peru) that is 9" and still growing..I suspect this is one tank that I may have to change(29g) .
this fish is 2 yrs old. (angels can be expected to live 8-10 yrs in captivity) so it's got some growing to do.

[cmartin]

The 30 Gal is the QT.

I am just asking about adult size as I want to set them up in a tank that will support their adult size.

They have grown much faster than I anticipated and so I am trying to decide what the next steps should be - but a bigger tank was always part of the plan. I was looking at the hex tanks as they are taller and I thought the extra height would be good.

If I were to add more - it would certainly not be in the 30 gal - I agree it is crowded in the already, but I needed to be sure that they were healthy before I move them out of the QT. So far there has only been a little aggression and that seems to stop when I rearrange the tank.

My 72 is a true community tank - not a single loss in over 6 months and not a torn fin in the bunch. I have no worries about the Angel being safe in the tank - my concern would only be for the other smaller fish already in there but unless a full sized Danio can be lunch for an Angel I would say it should be OK.

MY hope is to get a 210 sometime this summer and set it up with some cool DIY caves for my BGK. Then the 72 could become the home of a breeding pair of angels and a few friends.

[gatotsu77]

I'm genuinely surprised that your BGK hasn't scarfed down any danios yet... give it some more time and it quite likely will. (though individual temperament is never completely predictable... you might not have anything to worry about, or you might one day come home to just a big fat BGK in your tank... only time will tell) As far as the angels munching danios, jm1212 would be far better at answering that question than I, but knowing that angels prey upon cardinal tetras in the wild, I've no doubt they'd be able to munch down some danios if they were so inclined. In the next year or two, the 210 might be wise for the BGK, as they reach a maximum size of around 18".

[wataugachicken]

you know, i have angels and a BGK as well. . . . when i first got the knife i was doing research and trying to find out where i could keep him, and i came across a crazy number of "personal experiences" and other sources that stated over and over again that black ghost knives (knifes?) are prone to going after angels and eating their eyes. Because of that I don't keep mine together, and (even though there is a part of me that really doesn't believe it) I figured I'd let you know.

[Star_Rider]

angels may begin pairing at less than 1 year old.

when that happens
your community tank will shrink..IME by as much as 50%..some pairs may use less space others may use more.
if you were to add more angels you will increase the chances of pairs forming..

the aggression will spread to other fish but angels will tend to spread it more amongst the angels..and they can have deadly consequences.
they will attack anything in the tank..when my pairs spawn..they will attack the feeding tube I use to introduce food to the babies..,my hand and any fish in the tank..

I am assuming that the 30 is qt only? and the angels will be moved to the 72 after qt?I have not kept a BGK so I cannot atest to their behavior.

[cmartin]

My plan was to hopefully end up with a breeding pair that would have their own tank - just trying to find out what the appropriate size would be. The third Angel was then going to go in to the 72 as part of the community tank.

After hearing about BGK having a taste for Angel Eyes - I am seriously rethinking this plan. My BGK has not shown any aggression to his tank mates at all, but as everyone has mentioned, things do change. I have made sure that I have no live bearers in the tank as I don't want him to learn to 'hunt live food'. I know that he does put on some bulk after large waterchanges and I think that is likely due to the other tanks mates spawning.

I am assuming that if I end up with a mating pair that there really are no suitable tanks mates - the tank would be solely for the mated pair and their fry - which is fine. I have several smaller tanks (10s and 20s) that would work well as growout tanks.

If they do not pair up within a year, does that mean that they won't???? or do they change their minds :) ?

My plan for my BGK is to hopefully move him to a 210 gal - with a DIY cave system built in - hopefully sometime this summer or fall. I just have to find the right tank.

Then I would love to find a female BGK and try to introduce them - with a tank divider for the first little while to see how things go. I only ever saw BGK in my LFS once - so finding another one will definately be a challenge - especially trying to find one that is already about a year old.

Thanks for all the advice - any other tips would also be appreciated.