New Tank Problems (I think)

[WaterBaby]

I have just set up tank #2 (10 Gallon) to transfer my fish into while I cleaned tank #1. Tank 2 has been up and running for about 3 days. I did not transfer any of the gravel, bio-wheel, etc. from tank #1 to tank #2 because of some funky bacterial infection I had in it.

I used Bio-Spira to add some beneficial bacteria and transferred the fish.

Questions I have are:

*I have a trace of ammonia (looks like .5 to 1.0 on the card). Should I do a water change, or leave it alone? If I do a water change, will I mess up the workings of the Bio-Spira?

*pH I think is too high- 7.6. When I had tank #1 running the pH was at a constant 7.0 (I use Bullseye 7.0) I did add the Bullseye to this tank, but it didn't work. I can't get the pH down.
I might add that I did not use any of the gravel, decorations, plants (fake) from tank #1 in this tank. I bought new stuff. How can I get the pH down, or will it go down as the tank ages?

I also had some live floating plants in tank #1 but not in this one (if that makes a difference).

The only fish problem I see is one of my red-eye tetras is acting a little funny (hanging around the top of the tank) and it looks like one of his eyes has blood in it. Now this is really hard to tell, cause red eyed tetras have that band of red on the top of their eyes, but this eye looks like a ring of red, not just the upper band of red. His other eye looks normal.

Hopefully this is not the plague that I had in my first tank carried over to this one :(

Confused yet????

[SBA]

Hi

What was the problem in your first tank that has caused you to break it down? What was the 'funky bacterial problem'?

Adjusting the pH is probably not a good idea. Most pH adjusting products will do more harm than good in the long run as they will cause the pH to 'bounce' around. Most fish would rather a stable pH that is not quite their 'ideal' than one that fluctuates all the time. 7.6 (if that is what yours is from the tap??) will be fine for most fish, unless you're trying to breed them.

Can't help you with the Bio-Spira - its not available here, but in a 'normal' cycle you would not do any harm by doing water changes. Not much of the beneficial bacteria lives in the water (what filtration are you using BTW?), but ammonia is very harmful to fish so to make it easier on them regular water changes are essential. Not sure what the effect of Bio-Spira is on this logic though...

HTH

[WaterBaby]

I don't know what I had in the first tank. Tried to medicate and failed. There's a long post about this somewhere recently......

Actually, my tap water is around 7.0..... So that leads me to believe that there's something in the tank raising the pH (new gravel or a orange and white stone, sorry, don't know what kind of stone it is, but you have probably seen them in stores.

I am using an Aquaclear 200 and have 4 fish left (2 cories and 2 red-eye tetras).....

Maybe I'll do a small water change and see what happens (20%).

[dave76]

imho .5 to 1.0 is not trace, .2 maybe but 1.0 is poisonous.

[SBA]

agree that 1ppm ammonia is bad, cories won't like that for long as it will burn their gills.

again not sure about the bio-spira but thinking about it the priority is your fish and water changes are the only way to reduce the stress caused by ammonia (other than ammo-lock2 or equivalent which i think binds the ammonia into ammonium or something). regular, frequent water changes are what i would do, but again i have not used bio-spira. maybe it is 'normal' to get a reading of 1ppm for the first day after adding fish?? still not good for the fish though.

has the bio-spira been stored correctly do you know?

what do the instructions say about water changes, levels of ammonia you should expect etc?

if the gravel is just normal washed aquarium gravel (not crushed coral or suchlike) then it shouldn't be changing your pH, also the rocks sound like sandstone which should not raise pH. Take a look at this link (http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml) to WetmanNY's site for more info on this.

if the tap water has a pH of 7 then definitely don't mess with it - some would kill for that!

if you let a bucket of water out of the tap 'gas off' for a couple of hours (or overnight) and then test the pH what does it come out at? dissolved co2 in tap water can make the readings lower straight from the tap. even if it turns out to be 7.6 from the tap its best left alone.

[WaterBaby]

What I just did was a 25% water change. I again tested the ammonia. Levels were the same :( :( .

So, I added some more bio-spira to the tank. The directions do say not to use any ammonia removing additives to the filter or tank. I figure the bacteria feed off the ammonia, so adding some more couldn't hurt. It does say that you can not overdose bio-spira. I'll also keep an eye out for nitrites.

I have not read anything about what water parameters I should be expecting with the bio-spira. I did not expect these ammonia readings though.

Maybe I did not have an adequate fish load in the tank to feed the bio-spira bacteria and they died off????? The LFS had it stored in the fridge.

As far as the water, yes, I usually do keep a stock of water in gallon jugs for water changes. I just checked one of those, and indeed, the pH is 7.6.

* I just read something that said that you have to have ammonia in the tank before you add the bio spira* How is this possible in a new tank set-up? Maybe if you add the ammonia yourself...... Maybe the initial dose I put into the tank died off from starvation.. I would add the link to the page, but I don't know how.

[SBA]

if you can't overdose bio-spira then it sounds like you're doing the right thing.

if you are getting ammonia readings at all then there is enough in there to develop the bacterial bed. it will be interesting to see how you get on using bio-spira.

edit: i guess they mean you put the bio-spira in after the fish? or add ammonia from another source first? either way you now have fresh bio-spira and existing ammonia so hopefully it should do its thing!

to add links click on the button that says 'http://' in the vB Code box above the editor. then you just put the text you want to be displayed and click ok, followed by the URL to the link (i.e. 'http://www.bbc.co.uk') and click ok again.

good luck!

[WaterBaby]

http://forums.aquariumhobbyist.com/view.php?id=3598,3651

Did it work?:confused:


Yeah!!! Thanks SBA

[dave76]

have you tested your tap water for ammonia content? mine has .5 ppm from tap. Thats why I only do 25% water changes once a week. I find that my BIO filter will consume it quickly. I keep cichlids so I have a strong bio filter anyway. If you have high ammonia content strait from tap i would suggest using some kind of zeolite filtration untill you can get your water parameters under control.

[WaterBaby]

You know, I thought about that (having ammonia in my tap water), so I tested it, and nope, it didn't register.

[WolfPup522]

I hope adding more bio-spira helps, but if not, I would suggest doing another water change - maybe 30-50%. I had a bit of an ammonia spike in my 10-gal after I added the first group of fish (cories). I freaked out (I read that cories are even more sensitive to ammonia than other fish) and did a 50% water change. Since then, my readings have been between 0 and .2.

Unfortunately, I have no idea what could be causing your pH to rise. My tap water is at 7.0, and that's also what my tanks usually read. Sorry I can't help more.

[dave76]

I was trying to get my levels down before and I kept doing water changes and evertime I did one it went up:eek:. Luckily I was only at .25ppm so I added another filter to my setup and it took care of the problem.

[WaterBaby]

Adding another filter wouldn't help. It's only a 10 gallon hex. It actually has the same footprint as my 6 gallon eclipse, but way higher.

[WaterBaby]

I "CAN NOT" get the ammonia level down :mad: :mad: .

I think that I have done a 50% water change and I "STILL" have the same ammonia reading.

I know my test kit is good, cause I tested the tap water and it showed 0.

What can I do? Continue these water changes till I do a 100% water change? If this is due to the Bio-Spira, I'll stick to fishless cycling when I set the first tank up again.:mad: :mad:

[WaterBaby]

I just noticed that there is a sediment (kinda yellowish) at the bottom of my ammonia test tube. I left it sitting out for a few minutes (with the water and test solution in it). The water above the sediment is clear :confused:

Could this be the bio-spira bacteria (that died when I put in the ammonia test solution)? Maybe it's not an ammonia problem???

Here's the picture:

[WaterBaby]

Let's try that picture again

[Slappy*McFish]

Take a water sample to your LFS and have them test it for you. That way you'll be able to compare the results with your test kit.

[yashinfan]

When I had 2 ppm of ammonia in my tank it took about a week to get it down with 20% water changes daily. I hope you transferred your fish to this tank as you would introduce a new fish to a tank (ie- bag adjusts to temp then add small amounts of tank water until the pH in the bag is equal to the one in your tank) and that you also netted your fish into the new tank instead of pouring them in with your other tank's water. I used pH 7.0 to get my tank's pH to 7.0 but you do these things BEFORE you add fish. It seems like you were in too much of a hurry to check pH and get it settled before adding fish, which was obviously not a good idea!

[anonapersona]

I've read that the BioSpira is the miracle it advertizes, and recall reports of the tank cycling in 1 to 5 days.

I think you ought to follow the directions on the bottle. not some internet forum. The ony total disasters I've read of were where someone added ammonia to the BioSpira.

It is possible that the ammonia you are reading is "bound" and therefore not harming the fish. What water conditioner are you using? "Bound" ammonia is typically still available to the bacteria.

Any chance you have chloramine treated water? The tap, unconditioned, would not show ammonia, but the conditioned tank water would show the ammonia -- but not the fact that it is bound ammonia (if indeed it is, which depends on the water condtioner you use!) Some conditioners break the chloramine into chlorine and ammonia, others do that and then lock up the ammonia also.

[famman]

If you are de-chlorinating your water with amquel or similiar product, you will notice a residual ammonia reading soon after water changes.
This is a normal byproduct of detoxifying the chlorine and chlorimane which leaves ammonia. This ammonia is bound in such a fashion as to not be toxic to your fish, but it will still serve as food for the bacteria cultures.
I've often gotten as high as a .5 ammonia reading after a big water change with my tap water. I dose pretty big with the amquel too.
The residual you see in your test tube is a result of the test chemicals and the bound form of the ammonia left over from the amquel.
Don't panic and try to let the bio-spira do it's thing for a day or 2. Water changes are ok, I'd say every day or even more would be ok if you want. Try to follow the directions on the bio spira.
good luck
:)

[WaterBaby]

I just tested tank. Left it alone for a day (no testing-couldn't take it) ;)

No Ammonia
:)

No Nitrites
:)

pH is still 7.6, but it doesn't seem to be affecting adversly.

Maybe I jumped the gun :o . Maybe Bio-Spira works afterall..

We'll see....................... TBC (To Be Continued)

[famman]

Congrats, sounds like you stabalized.
Bio spira does seem to work when fresh. I'm still withholding final judgement until I try it myself a few times.
Try to give your corys a soft place to sit, like some sand and maybe a cave to hide under.
How's your tetra?
good luck
:)

[WaterBaby]

I did give the Cory's a sandy spot. Since I have an underground filter, I could not give them a sand patch in the gravel, so I took one of those square food storage containers and put about 1/2 inch of sand in that. I do have that rock with a hiding hole in it, but they like the sand better....

They rest in it, and when I feed them the shrimp and sinking pellets, I drop them right in the sand. This also makes it easier for me to see the leftovers and pick them out so they don't foul the tank.

Ah, the tetra............ Don't know yet....... But I am keeping a close watch on him. :confused:

[wetmanNY]

WaterBaby, the impression that I'm getting by lurking in your thread, is that after two days, the BioSpira-treated system showed no ammonia. Though there was some ammonia in the first days.

I respect Tim Hovanec's research (http://www.marineland.com/science/nspira.asp) that went into developing this technology, so I'm gratified that it seems to work so well..

[SBA]

WaterBaby

Glad to see things seem to have progressed :)

Everything still ok?

Sounds like biospira lives up to its claims from your experience.