29g Plants

[swampfox25]

Hey guys I wanted to know how I know if I am suposed to use c02 or not. I really want it to look green and lush. If c02 is a go I will probably be doing the DIY 2L Bottle or the Hagen c02 system.


Tank Size: 29g

Lighting: 65 watt pc light. (I changed the antic one to a 6700K full spectrum :D )

WPG: 2.24

PH: 6.6

Substrate: florite

Plants: wisteria, cabomba, assorted swards, and mondo grass

Fertilizer: I have not added any ferts yet because I wasn't sure. I bought something called Leaf Zone.

[djlen]

CO2 is of great assistance to the plants in their growing process.
Injecting it adds carbonic acid to the water table however and you report a pH of 6.6 which could mean that you have very soft water and possibly a low kH. This can be a problem when injecting gas. The kH(carbonate hardness) of your water is your buffer which determines the degree of swing in your pH. The higher the kH, the more buffer you have.
Since adding CO2 adds acid to the water and you are starting with 6.6pH you may have to add some baking soda to your water before injecting gas.

What is your kH?

Len

[superjohnny]

Len is right on the money. If you add CO2 to very soft water it will make your PH drop. That could potentially kill your fish so make sure you know your KH before you add CO2.

[swampfox25]

what should it be how can i make it higher?

[djlen]

Get a kH test kit at the LFS. I use Tetra Test....seems to work well. Measure your kH and compare it with your pH either in the calculator or on the chart below it here:

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm#fauna

It will tell you, based on these two values, what your CO2 ppm is.
Also it shows what levels are safe on the chart.

I'm a little skeptical of the pH you are giving. How old is your pH test kit? Seems very low unless you've added some chemicals to your water.

Let us know what your kH comes up as and we'll go from there.
Len

[swampfox25]

after reading the post i am very sorry for the typo and inconvienice i ment 7.6 sorry again

[swampfox25]

.... also what is PPM and how do i measure it with a DIY systm?

thanks

[Starry]

ppm is parts per million, or mg/L. That;s a measure of concentration. You need a test kit for KH (carbonate hardness). You absolutely need this. Measure the KH and pH of your tank, then look up your CO2 concentration in one of the charts (see prev post).

Also, your KH measurement should be in degrees, not ppm. Something like 3, or 4, or 6, or 9, would sound right - a small number under 15. If you get a number in the hundreds, that's ppm. You can convert it to degrees, but I can't remember how. With most test kits, each drop of the reagent is one degree. So if you add 5 drops before the colour changes (be sure to shake it between drops), then your KH is 5. If your KH is under 3, then your water is too soft and adding CO2 will lower your pH a lot. The higher your KH, the more CO2 you can add before the pH lowers too much. With your pH, it sounds like your KH will be high enough.

Your CO2, which you read from the chart, should be between 15-30 ppm. Right now you most likely have less than 10.

And yes, Co2 will help. Cabomba is a hard plant to keep, and you will most likely fail without CO2. It won't be your fault, it's the plant. Wisteria and swords might be ok without, but they will LOVE CO2. As for the mondo grass, it's not a true aquatic plant and will never grow. Try to research on plants before you buy them. They're expensive enough as it is, without spending money on something that you don't have the conditions to keep, or that aren't even aquatic.

Good luck :)

[djlen]

A lot of questions you will have will probably be answered on the page I sent you the link for above. It's a pretty good, thorough explanation on CO2 and it's affects on your water.

I thought the original pH you quoted was a little low. 7.6 is more normal and it's corresponding kH will probably be easier to work with.

Test your kH and get back to us.
Len

[swampfox25]

ok my ph is 7.6 and my kh is 3 i bought the Hagen C02 system so it sould be easier should I just use the mix it has with it? comes with a bubble counter as well

[djlen]

Yes, you can use the Hagen kit, and see how it affects your pH once up and running.
Once the ingredients that came with it run out I would suggest that you go with a yeast/sugar mix for your system. In the long run it will save you some money, rather than using what they supply. I've never used that kit, but I assume the mix that they supply is sugar and yeast or something that will react in a similar way.
I don't know how effective it's going to be in a 29 gal. tank however. My impression from reading other's threads that use it is that it's not that effective on tanks over 20 gals. or so.
I could be wrong. This is not first hand experience, but my impression based on what I've read.
Your target pH is 6.6 - 6.7. Use Chuck's chart to gage your progress as the system kicks in.
Len

[swampfox25]

Well the hagens c02 system has been hooked up now for 2 days and the plants really seem to be greening up. They have a real dark green color comming from them. My ph looks like it is more twards 7.4 ish than the 7.6 it was my KH is still 3 though. Is that a good sign? Thanks. Also do you know the exact contentce of the Actavator and Stabalizor and quantity for the Hagen so I can just go to the grocerey store and spend 10 bucks and have enought ingredients for a year or so. Thanks again..

[swampfox25]

Well the hagens c02 system has been hooked up now for 2 days and the plants really seem to be greening up. They have a real dark green color comming from them. My ph looks like it is more twards 7.4 ish than the 7.6 it was my KH is still 3 though. Is that a good sign? Thanks. Also do you know the exact contentce of the Actavator and Stabalizor and quantity for the Hagen so I can just go to the grocerey store and spend 10 bucks and have enought ingredients for a year or so. Thanks again..

[superjohnny]

Originally posted by swampfox25
Also do you know the exact contentce of the Actavator and Stabalizor and quantity for the Hagen so I can just go to the grocerey store and spend 10 bucks and have enought ingredients for a year or so. Thanks again..

Yes, those packages contain sugar and yeast. The Hagen CO2 system is basically a packaged DIY system.

[swampfox25]

I dont think it is sugar because you fill it up with sugar then 1 packet of stabilzor and one actavator. I think one is yeast but the other smells like a powerderd amonia or something??

[swampfox25]

ok I tested the Kh and Ph and I am at....

KH: 180ppm
PH: 7.5

So according to the table I am about 9.6ppm (c02) and right under the green just a tad. Anything else I should do?

[Tempest]

It looks like you are losing CO2 from the tank.. You need to try to keep the surface agitation down if that is the problem.

[swampfox25]

You guys need to come here and type for me lol

ph:7.4

ppm:180

I dont know if that makes a difference or not 1.0 ph LOL so I am about 12 ppm (C02) which makes sense because My friend let me use his c02 test kit (man felt like a lab experiment) and I was geting a mid to hi 12 good bad??

[Tempest]

I'd think the Hagen system should do a little better than that.