View Full Version : Adding Salt to my tank
I have a 45gal tank in which I have 8 rainbows. My New Guinea Red Rainbows had ich, ad I am using Quick Cure right now. I see that aquarium salt can be beneficial to a freshwater tank. The container says to use 1 teaspoon per gallon of water. Do I do this every day, every other day, or what?
PumaWard
08-19-2003, 9:36 AM
I would only use 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons. You only do this once until your next water change. But, I would not use it unless your fish are sick or you have high nitrites. Also, since you are using Quick Cure, the salt may only provide minimal help.
JSchmidt
08-19-2003, 9:43 AM
Rob96, where do you see that salt is beneficial to freshwater fish? One of the greatest fishkeeping myths is that all FW fish should have salt added to their water. Unless you have a specific reason to add salt, I wouldn't do it.
Salt and elevated temps are often advocated as a treatment for ich, but I wouldn't combine that with other treatments. Since you've already started with QuickCure, I'd stay the course with that.
Jim
stoopid
08-19-2003, 9:47 AM
I think it's one TABLEspoon per 5 gallons.
I sure as hell hope I've been reading the box right. :rolleyes:
Rob96
08-19-2003, 10:53 AM
Going thru the archives here, showed quite a few threads where aquarium salt is being used. I made a typo there. I am using 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water.
Rob96
08-19-2003, 11:17 AM
Let me also add, that where I live, the city water is extremely hard. The fish I have suggest water hardness of around 7 or so. I know I am above that. Just did the GH test. It is at 14* of hardness or 250.6 ppm.
PumaWard
08-19-2003, 12:52 PM
Salt is generally used to used when in stressful situations (for the fish) and help with ich and fungus infections by people who don't want to use medications. Salt can also be added to reduce the effects of a high amount of toxic nitrites on fish. Healthy fish in a healthy enviroment don't need salt to be in good condition.
As for your hardness, I just looked at some profiles for some species of Rainbow fish, most of the ones I looked at can handle hard water. But, can you give the exact species of your rainbows other than your new one?
As far as salt with hardness, it doesn't do much to help with gH (General Hardness) (at least that's what I have read), which is the hardness which really effects fish. Sodium mainly effects kH (Carbonate Hardness) by means of lowering it, which isn't good as this can cause pH to become unstable. Adding salt directly into the aquarium (IME) does not effect gH or kH as there is no need for the water to become equal with itself (i.e. it doesn't need to pass minerals through a barrier in which there is water on the other side with different mineral contents so that both sides are equal).
wetmanNY
08-19-2003, 1:15 PM
Rob, after you've lurked at AC for a while, you'll be impressed with how patient knowledgeable fishkeepers are on the subject of salt...
...most of them.
You'd better actually read some of those threads on salt you have scanned. And follow the links.
We are all self-educated. There is no other way...
So, think: what would you have after two weeks if you added a teaspoon of salt every day? Take a moment's thought...
JSchmidt
08-19-2003, 1:29 PM
Pickles!
OrionGirl
08-19-2003, 1:37 PM
Don't you need some lime for that? I was thinking jerky...
Salt, NaCl, affects neither the GH (calcium and magnesium hardness) nor the KH (alkalinity or carbonate hardness). It does affect the total dissolved solids (TDS) of the water, increasing that measurement.
PumaWard - I think there may be some confusion on sodium and KH.
I think you need some vinegar for pickling.:)
PumaWard
08-19-2003, 4:51 PM
I meant like those pillows by Aquarium Pharmeceuticals makes the water softer (though it only effects kH) and the water softeners for pipes in like houses. They use sodium and some other stuff to lower kH through diffusion or osmosis or something.
I could be wrong though :D
I always thought salt lowered water hardness as well. You fill a water softener with large pellets of salt.
OrionGirl
08-19-2003, 5:26 PM
I think the problem may be in the terms here--"salt" is a general term used for a specific type of compound, rather than a specific composition. NaCl is a salt, as is potassium chloride. Yet, they will have different impacts on water composition. The 'salt' in water softeners is not the same as the 'salt' found in the kitchen, which is different from the marine 'salt' mixes available on the market.
wetmanNY
08-19-2003, 10:17 PM
Sodium chloride is used in water softeners because it's cheaper than potassium chloride and people don't know any better, nor do they care about flushing sodium into their aquifer.
Potassium is a nutrient for a planted aquarium...
,,,but it's hard to know where to begin....
Basic household water chemistry: Calcium (Ca++) and magnesium (Mg++) ions make it "hard: to form foam with soap - those two ions specifically. Thus the term "hard water" because it made it hard to do laundry (this is not a joke, it is real). Sodium ion (Na+) does not have this effect.
Household water softeners are "salt-exchange resins". These resins exchange Na+ for Ca++ and Mg++. Incoming water from the mains has Ca and Mg and is therefore "hard". Passing through the resin, Ca++ is captured and 2 Na+ are released into the water (you must charge-balance, so two +1 ions are required for each +2 ion). Periodically the unit must be recharged by addition of NaCl, so there is plenty of Na+ available to swap for Ca++ or Mg++. This is the total function. You are in tank-keeping terms reducing the GH at the cost of increasing the TDS (total dissolved solids is now higer due to the two for one ion swap).
Some resins can exhange Cl- for HCO3-, but my understanding is that the ordinary hosehold units are not set to perform this function, but I have not checked that out myself.
Water softener "salt" is normally pelleted NaCl, rather thn the ground and sized crystals used in the kitchen - unless of course you use "sea salt" for cooking and the table (which is not just NaCl, but it is not marine mix either). :rolleyes:
And, yes, you can substitute KCl for NaCl in a water softener, for a bit more $, but much more favorable environmental impact, and tank impact as well.
tricksterpup
08-19-2003, 11:44 PM
Check out this link, it may help you understand a few things.
I usually will toss it around for a molly link but it may help here. IT is written by Dr. Ted Colletti who is a columist for FAMA. Check it out, it is a very good site that he has and raises a few good points.
http://tcoletti.tripod.com/molly_salt_debate.html
But fish that we think that need salt, such as mollies and other live bearers, in fact need the hardness and not the salt.
well it is late and warm so i will continue this tomorrow. :)
jim
stoopid
08-20-2003, 8:42 AM
Originally posted by stoopid
I think it's one TABLEspoon per 5 gallons.
I sure as hell hope I've been reading the box right. :rolleyes:
backtracking a bit, and lots of good info here :)
At every water change I add 1 tablespoon of aquarium salts per 5 gallons if I'm fighting disease, otherwise I reduce that to 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons as a "general tonic" (quoting the box). It does seem to keep the water clear of parasites/ick as a tonic, it's when I didn't follow these procedures that I got ick... go figure :rolleyes:.
wetmanNY
08-20-2003, 8:52 AM
But just maybe it's when you didn't quarantine new arrivals you got "Ick," and the salt in the water was magical rather than biological...
..."not that there's anything wrong with that"...
JSchmidt
08-20-2003, 9:05 AM
Originally posted by stoopid
backtracking a bit, and lots of good info here :)
... otherwise I reduce that to 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons as a "general tonic" ...
Usually, if you follow good fishkeeping practices (e.g., quarantining new arrivals, performing maintenance and water changes sufficiently) there is no need for a general tonic or anything else. Keeping fish healthy generally doesn't require adding extra stuff... it does keep the pet industry supplied with money, though.
Jim
tricksterpup
08-20-2003, 3:10 PM
Originally posted by JSchmidt
Usually, if you follow good fishkeeping practices (e.g., quarantining new arrivals, performing maintenance and water changes sufficiently) there is no need for a general tonic or anything else. Keeping fish healthy generally doesn't require adding extra stuff... it does keep the pet industry supplied with money, though.
Jim
This is so true, and I believe in this 100%. If your fish are already healthy, due to regular water changes and proper maintaence you never ever need to add salt as a tonic.
stoopid
08-20-2003, 5:59 PM
That makes sense... I have, however, no second tank to quarantine newbies and a lot of new arrivals as of late (still filling my 30g).
I'll try not adding any on my next water change as I'm done buying any tankmates for a while (spent enough in the past 2 months **** it :p ).
I know there's a lot of 'schools' of thought when it comes to tank maintenance. I'm more apt to join the preventive school as I hate "issues" like ick and poor water quality. If things pan out for me between now and my next water change (no ick returning and water's okay), then I'll go no-salt and see what (if anything) happens.
Thanks for the suggestions :)
wetmanNY
08-20-2003, 9:18 PM
If you're adding salt, are you adding enough salt to completely eliminate parasites then? If you are not, then what's it really all about?
I don't quite get what a "tonic"is anyway? It has such a quaint sound to it. Does it "refresh the blood and boost the vital spark?" Does a tonic genuinely "improve gill function"? What does that oft-repeated phrase actually mean?
Oh well...
...why not quarantine new arrivals in a big plastic bucket with a sponge filter, since you don't have a tank for quarantine?
Endless repeated bouts of Ich take the fun out of keeping fish.
tricksterpup
08-20-2003, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by wetmanNY
I don't quite get what a "tonic"is anyway? It has such a quaint sound to it.
Tonic is soda water that goes well with Gin. ;)
jim
JSchmidt
08-21-2003, 7:41 AM
Originally posted by tricksterpup
Tonic is soda water that goes well with Gin. ;)
jim
Now that's something I DO advocate!
Jim
stoopid
08-21-2003, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by wetmanNY
If you're adding salt, are you adding enough salt to completely eliminate parasites then? If you are not, then what's it really all about?
I don't quite get what a "tonic"is anyway? It has such a quaint sound to it. Does it "refresh the blood and boost the vital spark?" Does a tonic genuinely "improve gill function"? What does that oft-repeated phrase actually mean?
Oh well...
...why not quarantine new arrivals in a big plastic bucket with a sponge filter, since you don't have a tank for quarantine?
Endless repeated bouts of Ich take the fun out of keeping fish.
Okay, slow down :)
Tonic -- essentially I believe it helps with gill function and makes the water less habitable for parasites to even form. Fish can handle a little aquarium salt in their water, so there's no threat to their health.
I don't intend on buying a lot of fish, my last major purchase was the 12 schoolers yesterday. It's clear sailing from here as I don't intend on buying more. I only had (what I thought) was ick once, and I fear this was more a result of poor water conditions than the newbies. The bucket's a good idea, but I'd rather not be that concerned my LFS is toxic to my tank, otherwise I probably should find another LFS ;).
I'm new and have to learn the dietary requirements of my fish so less junk stays in the water.
OrionGirl
08-21-2003, 10:33 AM
Salt helps gill function only when nitrites are present--the salt exchanges ions and makes the nitrite less toxic to fish. Lacking nitrites, it doesn't benefit the gills, and in high enough concentration can cause serious problems. While low levels may not threaten health, it is not a panacea or magic bullet.
Low levels of salt, such as the theraputic levels advocated by retailers, are seldom effective against most parasites. Higher levels (above above about 1.004 on a hydrometer, I think) will kill parasites, but should not be maintained for long periods of time for freshwater fish. Also, for most parasites, they are protected from water conditions during most of their life cycle--giving a slat water dip to a fish infected with ick will only impact the parasites that are external--anything within the body of the fish is protected. Ditto for most medications--they don't do a thing for parasites embedded in the flesh.