How many fish is TOO many?

[kamoton]

:help:

I recently adopted a few extra fish with my new tank purchase and some will get rather large. They will be housed in a 265 and I may get rid of the damsels due to their aggressivness.

Here's the rather long list with everything going in & the sizes beside them:

FISH:
Panther Grouper 14
Wolf eel 16
Spotted moray eel 14
california stingray 10 around
Desjardini Sailfin tang 10
Emperor Angel 8
Black dogface puffer 8
Blue line grunt 7
Powder blue tang 5
Bicolor foxface 5
Half black mimic tang 5
2 Domino damsels 4-5 doesn't include the 1 in the 265 already
Spade 4
Yellow tang 4
Sailfin tang 4
Dwarf lion 4
strawberry grouper 3
flame angel 3
scorpionfish 3
spiny box puffer 3
sharpnose puffer 2
3 striped damsel 2
Catshark egg...soon to hatch


INVERTS:
blue linkia star, snd sifting star, choco chip star, 5 brittle stars (all 4-5" each)
sea biscuit 5
1" urchins- 3 long spined, 3 pencil, 3 black, (1 pink pincushion 4")
crabs-sally lightfoot, 3 decorator, 2 emerald
anenome-curly que, rock flower, pink tip sebae 4-5"
3 flame scallops
sea squirt
cucumber 5
50+ blue leg herms
200+ tiny snails...if that many---the sharpnose had a field day with what I couldn't get out of
the tank


10 pcs. live rock from 5-12 inches
2 8" tree sponges


THANKS FOR ANY INPUT...DON'T WANT MY BABIES TO BE UNHAPPY!!!

[Charise]

Wow, that's a lot of fish!!!
But you also have a rather large tank. I've always heard at least 1 gallon per inch of fish, so just add up the numbers! Then you have to figure in the decorations and whatnot...

I'm no expert, but my guess is you're okay.

[Ace25]

I have no idea how it is even possible that you can keep some of those fish together and happy, even in a 265. But I can't see your tank to tell either. From experience, only the people that observe the tank/fish on a daily basis can judge if they are happy or not. Most people would say my tank has way too many fish, but for the most part, everyone is happy.

I still can't wait to see some pictures of them all in one tank.. going to be interesting looking. You have a mix of a few different types of tanks all in one.. predator, reef, specimen (stingray). I have been watching my LFS build up his 400G reef tank and I don't think you could put in even 1/2 of your fish in that tank.. but it is a reef tank, lots of rock.

[kamoton]

The meanist fish I have is the 2" sharpnose puffer and then the domino damsels. My panther grouper, stingray, and black dogface are like lil puppy dogs...they come to the top and get their silversides and the stingray even comes to get petted. I will post pics when I get everyone transferred to the 265...having a little trouble setting it up at the moment so it may be a while.

[mandy21]

That's a lot of fish, agreed. I haven't done the most research, but I'm wondering whether the ray is even suitable to the aquarium. I think I have read to house them with non aggressive species to avoid potential picking at them as well as have a lot of sando n the bottom with very minimal rock.

Also not a fan of those shark eggs. The spotted moray eel scares me since morays get BIG and mean.

my personal thought is if you think you have too many fish, you probably do. If it were me, I would keep a "definite keep" list, a "maybe keep" list, and a "meh" list (for lack of better terms). I'd check out local reef club members or post up somewhere some of the fish you would like to get rid of, or that are meh and see if there are any takers. You do have some beautiful fish. Actually, most of them are ones I'd love to have.

[Bagshaw]

thats a but load of fish

[kamoton]

That's a lot of fish, agreed. I haven't done the most research, but I'm wondering whether the ray is even suitable to the aquarium. I think I have read to house them with non aggressive species to avoid potential picking at them as well as have a lot of sando n the bottom with very minimal rock.

Also not a fan of those shark eggs. The spotted moray eel scares me since morays get BIG and mean.

my personal thought is if you think you have too many fish, you probably do. If it were me, I would keep a "definite keep" list, a "maybe keep" list, and a "meh" list (for lack of better terms). I'd check out local reef club members or post up somewhere some of the fish you would like to get rid of, or that are meh and see if there are any takers. You do have some beautiful fish. Actually, most of them are ones I'd love to have.
I originally planned on getting sharks, rays, and eels...but I came across some great deals on people that didn't want their fish anymore and they were too beautiful to pass up! The last eel I purchased (black spotted moray) is a bit scary...he is wc off the coast of FL, but he tends to stay under his rock...even at feeding time I have to hand feed him? They all have their own personalities & as mean as he looks---he still keeps to himself. When I get everything moved over to the 265... I am only going to keep the little bit of rock I currently have in my 110...it's enough to make 2 archways at the ends of the tank for the fish & ray to swim through & then the entire middle is open...mainly for ray ray and the soon to hatch shark. I'll probably have to quarantine the baby shark due to it being vulnerable that 1st month after hatching...and when I do add him my only concern will be the sharpnose puffer...he loves to pick on the new guys...even the huge dogface and sailfin I just added.

[mandy21]

hehe "ray ray". that made me laugh.

I definitely do not blame you for grabbing the fish. :)

[kamoton]

My 5 year old daughter named him and several others. I swear it seems like he knows his name...when she comes in the room and says "ray ray" he'll go crazy back in forth and splashes water until she pets him?

[mandy21]

ok now that is just cute as could be.

[salty420]

I've always heard at least 1 gallon per inch of fish, so just add up the numbers!

that is true of fw, not sw. for sw i've heard the recommendation is more like 2 inches of fish per 10 gallons of water.

[Amphiprion]

that is true of fw, not sw. for sw i've heard the recommendation is more like 2 inches of fish per 10 gallons of water.

That is a good rule of thumb.

[journey0820]

The meanist fish I have is the 2" sharpnose puffer and then the domino damsels. My panther grouper, stingray, and black dogface are like lil puppy dogs...they come to the top and get their silversides and the stingray even comes to get petted. I will post pics when I get everyone transferred to the 265...having a little trouble setting it up at the moment so it may be a while.

I can't wait to see pictures of that tank!! I'm drooling over here.

[kamoton]

that is true of fw, not sw. for sw i've heard the recommendation is more like 2 inches of fish per 10 gallons of water.

Thanks for the input...I was calculating 3-4" of swimming fish per gallon. The bottom dwellers and glass clingers didn't get added in. But if it is 2 per 10g I might not want to add anything else!!! Hopefully they'll be content for a while unless they get some miracle gro in their food and have a sudden growth spurt. :grinyes:

[missc4]

I can't wait to see pics as well.That is a nice list of fish,nice and long.lol.I tend to overstock myself.I think my tank is overstocked now but then you always think you can squeeze in one more.lol

[alpha123]

hm

[alpha123]

1 gallon per inch is for freshwater.

SW is more like 5 gallons per inch. You need like 1000 gallons.

[Reefscape]

Wow.....i would only add half that list to a tank of 265gallons.....

I'll say no more....

[tullsterx]

A common general guideline that I use is 3-4 inches of fish per square foot of surface area at the top of the tank.

So, I guess your tank is 84" x 24" = 14 Sq Ft of Surface Area. 14 * 4 = 56 inches of fish.
Your list is over twice that. . . I think that's way overstocked. I don't think all of those fish will have a very high quality of life in that tank together.

[Ace25]

Bah.. I don't believe any of those Inch per Gallon rules.. they are so "general" that for the most part are meaningless. If I went by those type of rules I could easily house 1 tang in my 29G tank if that were the only fish, but I can tell you without a doubt that it is NOT possible. It really does come down to the type of fish, personality of the fish, and behaviour towards other tankmates.

I had just a wolf eel and stars and stripes puffer in a 55G at one point and they were 2 of the meanest fish/eel that I have ever seen. Just sticking your finger in the tank would have about guaranteed you would lose it. Both were extremely aggressive. Wolf eel used to attack the puffer and they would go into an aligator death roll when the eel bit into the puffer.

[Star_Rider]

FYI, the inch per gallon rule does NOT apply for freshwater.

nor should it apply to Marine fish.

the original rule was based on surface area and was a rule based on sq in of surface. even then the rule had limitations as a guide for O2 exchange.

that is, IMO, quite a few fish for the tank. but keep a watchful eye out.

[NAUTILO]

I think ACE is right.
The general rule is only a reference.
Right density depends on kind of population.
What I usually do is keep water quality and my fish under close observation. Not difficult to identify uncomfortable individuals and move them out.
The idea is to have a peaceful stress-free environment for tank inhabitants and also for you. Otherwise this hobby is nonsense.

[Amphiprion]

Bah.. I don't believe any of those Inch per Gallon rules.. they are so "general" that for the most part are meaningless. If I went by those type of rules I could easily house 1 tang in my 29G tank if that were the only fish, but I can tell you without a doubt that it is NOT possible. It really does come down to the type of fish, personality of the fish, and behaviour towards other tankmates.

I had just a wolf eel and stars and stripes puffer in a 55G at one point and they were 2 of the meanest fish/eel that I have ever seen. Just sticking your finger in the tank would have about guaranteed you would lose it. Both were extremely aggressive. Wolf eel used to attack the puffer and they would go into an aligator death roll when the eel bit into the puffer.

The "guidelines" are meant as exactly that. They don't apply to more common-sensical (IMHO) issues, such as housing a tang in a 29 gallon. If anything, they only serve to keep people from overloading the biological capacity of the tank, not what size tank is the minimal ideal situation for a particular species. Granted, I tend to strictly limit the amount of fish I have to begin with, so I think that many people "overdo" it with fish. Such guidelines can be used successfully in tandem with some info on fish habitat and behavior to provide a proper environment.

[WinnipegDragon]

Massively overstocked. A 265g is too small for the cat shark alone.

[nycsicktank]

welll what can you say, people love to overstock :)

[NeonFlux]

What they really need is a bigger tank

[alpha123]

A small power outage, and bye bye everything

[kamoton]

Bah.. I don't believe any of those Inch per Gallon rules.. they are so "general" that for the most part are meaningless. If I went by those type of rules I could easily house 1 tang in my 29G tank if that were the only fish, but I can tell you without a doubt that it is NOT possible. It really does come down to the type of fish, personality of the fish, and behaviour towards other tankmates.

I had just a wolf eel and stars and stripes puffer in a 55G at one point and they were 2 of the meanest fish/eel that I have ever seen. Just sticking your finger in the tank would have about guaranteed you would lose it. Both were extremely aggressive. Wolf eel used to attack the puffer and they would go into an aligator death roll when the eel bit into the puffer.
Thanks! I definitely agree with the personality of the fish theory. I did freshwater for over 5 years...and if I told yall some of the things in that tank...you would say it is impossible. I mixed just about everything but pihranas including wild caught fish...with no problems. I hand feed all of my fish and the majority of them are all like little puppies. My wolf eel, grouper, stingray and dogface puffer are the BEST!!! The only ones I feed with tongs are the anenomes, scorpion, lion and moray eel (due to his teeth and aggressiveness at feeding time).

[VT_Chris]

Kamoton,

I don't know anything about this, but it appears you do. I want to keep either a zebra moray or a snowflake moray with a dwarf and antennata lionfish. Is this doable with my 75 gallon tank???

[OldManOfTheSea]

kamoton, I only just seen your thread on your question, or is it more or less of a vote your taking up here on such a large bio load for a small tank? I can only quote certain things as I go a long here in reviewing one response after another.

Now I can easily say that it be very much with risk to have any large grouper with any eel that could be fitted well enough in the grouper mouth. Your measurements of both eels and a grouper that you have their says that if you not feed that grouper well enough, it will get a meal of its own.

The Spotted moray eel you listed at 14", if this eel survives the grouper to grow its full size, It will be the tanks only inhabitant for it can grow larger then 6', and the wolf ell, I not talk about, for it too will not survive this list.
The Urobatis halleri, would require this tank all to its self, with no LR in the tank, but do have LR in the sump.


Also not a fan of those shark eggs. The spotted moray eel scares me since morays get BIG and mean.
mandy, im sure at this moment that kamoton can not see it at this point in time that his eel is aggressive, due too its present size. But in time, that will change for which a Spotted moray is an aggressive fish feeder.



Kamoton,

I don't know anything about this, but it appears you do.
That may remain to be seen for I would think that if a person is well aware of the long term care of such creatures, if I were Kamoton, I wouldn't start anything as what he is about too.

No offence meant here Kamoton, but in time for you of a worst case scenario will be is that the Spotted moray will be the only one left in this 265 gal tank. The ray im sorry to say will or sooner or later will perish early on due too the stress it will be under.

In mentioning a few things, im hoping that you rather take a much different approach in all this. :perv:

Buddy