where do I go from here?

[g. mcclean]

First I would like to give you some background in order to make it easier for you to give me some suggestions. The aquarium in question is a 46 gallon set-up. It has been up and running for 6 months. I have a dsb (approx 4 inches) with "live sand" on the top layer. We have 55 lbs of live rock that has been gradually added. We run a cannister filter from which we just removed about 2/3 of the bioballs. We have 2 powerheads supplying approx 540gph water movement. We also run a Remora C protein skimmer. Livestock includes approx 40 turbs, 25 nassarius, 2 ceriths, many hermits, an emerald crab, a red serpent star and a cleaner shrimp. The original fish are 3 green chromis. These were used for cycling(before I learned about "fishless" cycling). After the cycle was complete we added a clown which has since died. He was in the aquarium for 4 months, began to act lethargic, stopped eating and died. At the same time as the clown we added a royal gramma which last week (approx 4 months in tank) began acting strange. In a previous post I talked about her. She began hiding more and finally disappeared. After the gramma we added a flame angel. He is still with us. We then added a red-spotted sandhopper (blennie?). He is also still with us. We keep the temp at approx 78-80 , salinity at 1.023, have not had any ammonia or nitrites since cycling was complete. Nitrates run about 20 ppm. No detectable phosphate. Neither the clown nor the gramma were in the aquarium prior to completing the cycling. We do 4-5 gallon water change every week to 10 days and an 8 gallon change once a month. We also have 2 hammer corals which are flourishing, and 2 non-photsynthetic gorgonia that also are doing well. And now the question. What did I do wrong? Can I prevent fish death by doing some additional maintenance? There does not seem to be any aggression between inhabitants. Thanks for any suggestions. I would like to add a fish to the tank, but not until I try to solve our problem.

[kreblak]

Sometime fish just don't adjust well to new surroundings. From the sounds of things, your tank is immaculate. I don't know why your Clownfish and Royal Gramma died. My only guess would be an illness of some sort. Usually if fish suddenly won't eat, they are sick. Have you checked for any signs of Ich or velvet?

[g. mcclean]

Neither fish exhibited any sign of illness. Ich I think I would know . Velvet I'm not sure about, but I observed both fish carefully when they began to act "abnormal". As I stated in an earlier post, I had a cyano outbreak that seemed to bother the fish. Someone else had mentioned strange behavior from a gramma during a cyano outbreak. I have the cyano almost totally cleared up. The blennie still does not lay on the substrate like he used to however. I will look up velvet and try to learn more.

[OrionGirl]

Actually, both of the deaths are symptomatic of cyanide poisoning. Fish that were captured with cyanide tend to be brightly colored, and healthy looking, though sometimes will not eat. Then, for no apparent reason, they die after days, weeks, or months of apparent health. There is one store in Denver that we had bought 3 fish from over the course of 6 months--all of them died within 6 months of purchase. Other fish added in the same time frame from other stores are still alive and well today. My guess is that either some aspect of their acclimation, or the supplier is the problem, and I strongly suspect it's the supplier gets it's fish from collectors that use cyanide.

My advice--get your fish from somewhere else. You can try asking the LFS, but you're not likely to get an honest answer, IMO.

[OrionGirl]

By the way--if a fish has cyanide poisoning, there is nothing you can do to prevent the death. Cyanide gets into their organs, which slowly shut down. The fishes immune system tries to fight, but ends up attacking the organs.

[mogurnda]

Yeah, I agree. Was the clown captive-bred or wild-caught? If it was wild-caught, there's a decent chance it was exposed to cyanide.

[g. mcclean]

Thanks for your help. I had suspected cyanide, but when I asked the LFS thety said death would be much sooner. I don't know if they sell cyanide captured fish, but I suspect they do. When I asked aboutanother clown one of the assistants kind of steered us off with an off-handed mention of cyanide. Do they use cyanide for other fish than the clown. I am still concerned about the loss of the gramma. I understand they come from deep waters and sometimes have trouble with decompression during shipping. Would death be slow in that case? I guess I will chalk up the losses to experience if we can't find any other culprit.

[BrianH]

What LFS did you buy these fish from?

Brian

[g. mcclean]

The LFS we use is a fish only store that has a very large marine section. They have been in business for many years. It appears that their help are all active in the hobby. We get great help and for the most part they are willing to spend time with us. I hesitate to order fish on-line because of the shipping stress. I am open to suggestions for reputable suppliers however. The location of the supplier we use is Clementon, NJ

[BrianH]

Sorry but I thought I may be familiar with the store you used. I live in north NJ and am not familiar with Clementon. If you interested absolutely fish (http://www.absolutelyfish.com) is having their annual midnight madness sale this friday. They carry the largest amount of marine livestock in north jersey. Check out the website for details.

Brian

[mogurnda]

An observation. I know several good aquarists who complain that their corals are thriving, but they can't keep fish alive. I just wonder how much it has to do with the fish themselves. Cyanide is still in use, amazingly enough, plus all of the stress of transhipping make it seem like a real gamble to get wild-caught fish. One reason I always push for captive-bred fish and corals.

[g. mcclean]

Thanks for the info Brian, but that would be about 2-3 hours away for us. I appreciate your help though.