Fin nipping advice needed

[superjohnny]

Hey guys & gals,
I have a 45g show with 4 angel fish, 3 clown loaches, a few otto's (is there ever really any way to tell?), a cichlid and 2 adult SAE's.

Two of the angel's are black, two are marble. The black ones are larger than the marble, but they were all the same size when I bought the 4 of them. Now the black ones are a little larger than a fifty cent piece, the marbles are a bit larger than a quarter. Some have grown, some haven't. The clown loaches are fairly new... about two months. They've just started to be social (at feeding time mostly), but still spend a majority of time under the plants in the back. They are about 2.5"-3" each.

The smallest angel's (the marbles) have barely grown at all, but everyone leaves them alone. They roam the tank freely and are happy & healthy. The two black angel's are both getting their fins nipped quite badly. My wife pointed out that she thinks she saw one of the clown loaches nipping at one of them. Is this normal behavior from loaches? I thought they were good community fish?

This weekend somebody's going back to the LFS to hopefully find a new home, but I don't know who to take back. Is fin nipping from loaches common?

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to give as much detail as possible. This is a healthy tank, the water is nicely balanced at a PH of about 6.8 with on detectable amonia.

Thanks for the help :)

[PumaWard]

First off, why kind of cichlid (besides the angels) is it? Depending on what the cichlid is, he/she could very well be the culprit of the fin-nipping.

The angels could also be having little quarrels over who is dominant and so on. And, if it were the loaches, I would suspect that all the angels would be having their fins nipped at.

I can only really suggest that you sit down and watch for a while to really find out who the culprit is. He or she will show their true colors when they think your not watching :D.

Anyway, there's really nothing you can do short of taking the fish back to your lfs or waiting things out to see if it stops.

[superjohnny]

The cichlid is very mellow. I've had him for a few years now and I've never seen him be aggressive toward anyone else. He's not territorial, he goes where he pleases and sleeps where he wants, usually in the middle of the tank somewhere. We call him Bofus.

I'll continue to watch, but in the few weeks I've been watching I haven't seen anything. Sneaky lil' bugger whoever it is. I kinda think it's one of the SAE's doing it at night.

[wetmanNY]

Superjohnny, look closely and see if the fin membrane between the spines/rays is being nipped at, so that the ends of the rays project (like a broken umbrella?),

You do need to work out what kind of cichlid you have. Keep an eye out at the LFS and try to identify him and post what you find.

Crossocheilus aren't very likely fin-nippers, IME.

[superjohnny]

From memory it's not just the membrane, but also the spines. I'll check them out more closely when I get home.

I'm *almost* sure it's not the cichlid... 98%. I'd be very surprised if it was him/her. I've never seen Bofus chase another fish and he's been in there with Tinfoil barbs, tiger barbs & liperinus'. He's a cool dude (or dudet, whatever) ;)

I'll post back when I know more about the damage. Thanks you 2!

[PumaWard]

Hmm... your cichlid looks like a Bolivian Ram (From your pictures), though it's hard to tell because the aren't close ups.

Is it possible the two larger angel are quarreling?

[superjohnny]

Yup, it's the loaches. Grrrr, who do I take back, the loaches or the angels?

Tough one. Do clown loaches normally nip?

[kvr]

A week ago, I took back my loaches (after two years) because they were getting to large for the tank. Problem with them was that the larger they got, the more territorial/aggresive they became. The aggresion in my tank was not 'fin nipping' but 'sucking platies eyes out' :eek:

It took me a while to find out/believe it, but it were the loaches doing it. I now have (without the big loaches) a fine community tank (with about 7 platies having only one eye left) ... So if you ask me, I'd take back the loaches and enjoy the angels !