72g Stocking w/Discus

[number1sixerfan]

Need some stocking suggestions. I am moving to a new apartment and I have a 72g. Right now I have 3 discus(had four), 17 cardinal tetra, and 1 blue ram. They have been living peacefully together for around 6 months. Two of the discus are relatively large and the third is still around only 3".

At first I thought about a shrimp tank with smaller community fish, but the more I think about it the more I think that a tank so big needs a centerpiece fish. However, I need a change of scenery. So I'm thinking of trading in the tetras and blue rams. How does this sound:

6-8 Discus
20 guppies(or some other top dwelling small fish. I figure the discus won't touch them since they won't touch the cardinals. Could always be wrong.)
8 Panda Cories
4 Ottos

It will also be a heavily planted tank with two canister filters. What I can't decide on is what top dwelling fish I would like to have. Guppies are beautiful, but I feel like they may not fit in with the amazonian theme I am going for with the plants and discus.

What would you all stock with 6-8 Discus?

[Draal5]

6 discus would be the max I would go with general rule is 15g per fish

I would do 20 black neons ( its had to get a school that big as they are hard to transport) I have 12 right now and will add more when petco puts them on sale again

you will need a different Corrie as the panda will not last at the higher temps you need for the discus try Schwartz's or albino's

I would also increase the Otto count to 12 or so

[Marinemom]

I agree that the max for the discus is six. That is a nice size school for that size tank. Is this a bowfront tank? If it is and it is planted with the discus it will be stunning! A nice school of cardinals will be beautiful with the discus and can easily handle the higher temps. that the discus require.Black neons as suggested will also handle these temps easily and tend to be a bit more hardy then the cardinals. Other tetras to consider if you do not want the cardinals or the black neons would be rosy tetras or lemon tetras which also look amazing with discus. As far as the cories go, if you want panda cories I think they will be fine with the discus. I have kept a decent size school of pandas successfully with the discus and they were fine. They are just too cute! Others to consider would be peppered cories or albinos.

Good luck with the 72 gallon tank. I am sure that when everything is up and running it will look amazing!

Marinemom

[number1sixerfan]

I generally keep my tank temp around 75 degrees give or take a few degrees and the discus thrive. I also do water changes twice a week. I prefer to keep around seven or eight because the discus will be much happier and possibly less agressive. We'll see what happens though.

As for the smaller fish do guppies seem too out of place? I'm starting to think I need to drop them as a possibility. Black neons may be an option. I've always wanted congo tetras as well, but they are mostly mid dwellers. What about serpea tetras? Do you guys think they would nip at the discus if kept in an appropriate school?

As for the bottom dwellers I really want a good clean up crew so to speak. I don't mind doing water changes very frequently due to the discus, but it would be nice not to have to vacuum every other day. The discus need feeding at least 3 times a day, so the excess just hits the floor in my current tank and I have no scavengers.

Thanks for the help guys.

[Marinemom]

Really 75 degrees is just too cool for the discus. The discus require temps in the 82-86 degree range in order for them to be happy and not appear lethargic. Serpae tetras are known fin nippers and will most likely harass the discus to no end. Keeping them in a decent size school will help but really I would consider another kind of tetra to keep with them.

Marinemom

[number1sixerfan]

Really 75 degrees is just too cool for the discus. The discus require temps in the 82-86 degree range in order for them to be happy and not appear lethargic. Serpae tetras are known fin nippers and will most likely harass the discus to no end. Keeping them in a decent size school will help but really I would consider another kind of tetra to keep with them.

Marinemom

Well, I had them at around 87 degrees for a while and they seem just as happy around the high 70's so kept it there for the health of the other tankmates(had a few rainbows in there for a while). I'll try the 80's again and see if it makes a difference. I feed them brine shrimp, beefheart, and cichlid gold pellets.

I was thinking the same with the serpae tetras. It's a shame because I've always liked their looks, but I'd hate for them to touch the discus.

[number1sixerfan]

I've decided to keep the cards. Additionally, I will be adding a small school of congo tetra. Now, what ratio of corys and ottos should I have. I need the otto's to help with the algae since I'll be planting the tank. It's probably best to have around 8-10 each correct? That may be pushing the stocking limit. Maybe I should choose one or the other.

[Spewn]

My ottos leave me with plenty of mess to vacuum off the sand. Granted it's not food now, the ottos saw to that, there's still stuff that needs to be removed left behind :P

#1 thing to remember about all scavengers is; scavengers poo too!

[number1sixerfan]

My ottos leave me with plenty of mess to vacuum off the sand. Granted it's not food now, the ottos saw to that, there's still stuff that needs to be removed left behind :P

#1 thing to remember about all scavengers is; scavengers poo too!

Yea, good point. I'll still vacuum, it's just with discus I need to do it everyday lol. It doesn't help that I have white sand. I will be switching to eco complete when I move, so I shouldn't have to do but once a week. With the sand, I can have 0 nitrates and it can still *look* dirty.

[Spewn]

I think just by virtue of being sand that isn't brown, it looks dirtier faster. I have black estes marine sand(Same as black colorquartz afaik), and I can't believe how much crap(literally!) is on the bottom every morning. With gravel, stuff falls in-between and you get it when you vacuum but with sand everything rests on the top.

[Marinemom]

If you switch the substrate to eco-complete like you said do not be surprised if the discus start to look dark. For some reason discus do not like dark substrate or a dark background. They will try to blend in like a camillion(sp.) Before long they start to look really sick. I would stick with the lighter colored substrate if you are planning on keeping the discus.

Marinemom

[rowedder]

Have you thought of hatchet fish? They are top dwellers. I also learned that black mollies help with the algae and there black color really stands out among the others, kinda breaks up the colors. I keep my tank at 86. I have had my tank as high as 96 for a week for my discus's health and all of the other fish in the tank did not seem to mind. I have otto's, cory's, a pair of gold rams, around 10 black mollies, & 18 discus all in a 210 gal aquarium. To minimize my cleaning time with the tank I went with the bare bottom look. I just weighted down my plants and feed them every week. They seem to be doing okay. Cleaning is a breeze now. I barely ever have to vacuum my tank.

[derekp]

Im not sure congo tetras would be ok with the cardinals one the congos get big. I have a school of full grown congo tetras and I feed them the neons that don't make it home from the store. They gobble them down like candy.

[Lupin]

I should have noticed earlier the panda cories. They will not mix well with the discus. Why? Pandas are hardly tolerant of temperature more than 80 degrees Fahrenheit. Stick with the Corydoras sterbai.

[number1sixerfan]

As long as I get the congo tetras while they are young so they can grow with the cardinals, I will accept the risk. That's how I've done it with discus. if they grow with them they usually tend to not look at them like food. lol

As for the cory's, just about all of them are going to have a temp cap around 80 degrees. I am not sure which I will get, so for now I will just get around 10 ottos until I figure it out.

As long as I get the congo tetras while they are young so they can grow with the cardinals, I will accept the risk. That's how I've done it with discus. if they grow with them they usually tend to not look at them like food. lol

[pinkertd]

Sterbai, julii, trilli (false julii) and albino cories will all tolerare 86F for the long term just fine. I have both trilli and albino. If you're planting the tank, you'll find the discus will spend more time mid and top level and not so much on the lower level unless they are grazing. Rummynose tetras are a pretty awesome addition to the tank, they don't bother the discus and the discus don't bother them. I have 3 black neons from a different tank that I threw in and they school a lot of the time with the rummies. The black neons actually seem to prefer to be in the upper 1/3 of the tank, while rummies stay in the bottom 3rd. If you go with a slightly smaller (less than 3" full grown) cory, I'd say add 8. If the adult size of the cory is 3", i'd only get 6. Pando cories will do fine for a while, but usually succumb early on to the high temps. I would try to discourage you from adding 10 ottos. As far as I know, ottos only eat algae. I think 10 of them would starve in there. With 6-8 discus, you're not going to get as many plants as you think in that tank. You need to leave open areas for the discus to swim and graze. I would suggest only 3 or 4. And congo tetras get to be 3" when full grown. I wouldn't put a loft of them in there, you're just not going to have room for all those fish full grown. And as for the temps for discus.....you will eventually run into health problems if you keep the discus under 80 degrees. I recommend 86.

[jmarsh3253]

I have 5 discus in a 75G heavily planted tank. When I switched from sand to Eco Complete, I didn't see any loss of color in the Discus, in fact, I think it made their color pop. I have Cardinal Tetras, Lemon Tetras, Otos, a Bristlenose Pleco and a Bolivian Ram, with the Discus and they all get along fine. I would wait on the Otos until you have the plants established for a while, as they can be hard to acclimate, and seem to do better when there is availability of their natural food...algae.

[Mij]

Eight Discus is pushing it, but with good filtration you could get away with it. The guppies I just don't think will go with the Discus. Congo and serpae tetras can be nippy so I wouldn't put them in with Discus. Have you though of Harlequin rasboras? A school of them goes great with Discus.

[number1sixerfan]

I'll be doing 50% water changes once a week and I have two canister filtars, each rated for a least twice the output needed for my tank. I also have a 55g that I can use if I feel like things are getting a bit crowded, so I should be ok there.

I decided against any top dwellers. When the plants fill in, I won't really miss them. I may order the ottos a couple weeks after my tank is established. It'll have plenty of algae as I will have 3wpg and without CO2. I'm still thinking about the coreys, I really like the idea of juli coreys but no one has them in stock so I can wait for them as well.

[pinkertd]

Discus are huge ammonia producers so if you plan to only do one 50% water change a week, you should be testing nitrates several times a week. Filtration is wonderful but does nothing to remove nitrates and dissolved organic compounds. And discus are very sensitive to nitrate and d.o.c. levels. If you can keep the nitrate level below 30 with only one weekly water change, you''ll be lucky. My advice to you is two 50% weekly water changes with that many discus in a 72G tank. It can definitely make the difference between the discus doing "just oK" and doing "great". In any case, figure out the plant requirements for a while so that you have that down pat and balanced before you add the discus. Learning about plants and discus at the same time is never a good combo, usually it is the fish that suffer.

[number1sixerfan]

Discus are huge ammonia producers so if you plan to only do one 50% water change a week, you should be testing nitrates several times a week. Filtration is wonderful but does nothing to remove nitrates and dissolved organic compounds. And discus are very sensitive to nitrate and d.o.c. levels. If you can keep the nitrate level below 30 with only one weekly water change, you''ll be lucky. My advice to you is two 50% weekly water changes with that many discus in a 72G tank. It can definitely make the difference between the discus doing "just oK" and doing "great". In any case, figure out the plant requirements for a while so that you have that down pat and balanced before you add the discus. Learning about plants and discus at the same time is never a good combo, usually it is the fish that suffer.

Just to clarify again, I am not a newbie.:) I have been keeping discus in planted tanks for around a year. I have also had a few other planted tanks with other fish.

The only difference is that I am jumping into a higher wattage per gallon in order to move away from low light plants. I'll have mostly swords, dwarf sag, anubias, vals, and crypts and some higher maintenance plants. My previous tanks have had CF Fixtures with around 1.5 wpg which just couldn't cut it for the swords.

I will have the plants completely setup a week before I order the discus.

Here is the tank before I almost got rid of most of my discus. Just a few left. Mind you this is with once a week water changes and the discus looked amazing. But you are right with 6-8, I will most likely need to do twice a week.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/number1sixerfan/DSC00838.jpg

This is what I switched it to before I switched back. I get the bug to switch things up all the time and thats why I'm here. lol
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/number1sixerfan/DSC00877.jpg

[pinkertd]

There's a lot of us that either switch things up as you say, or just get more tanks!:grinyes: Nice red turq you had. Be sure to post pictures as you go, it's part of the silent oath you take when you join A/C;). It sounds like the tank is going to be very nice!!

[number1sixerfan]

Just an update, I've decided to have only discus/cardinals/ottos in the 72g. In the 55g I will have bosemani rainbows/rummynose tetras/angels. I will be doing 50% water changes twice a week in the discus tank and once a week in the angel tank.

I'll be doing one tank at a time starting with the 72g. Ill also add a log. Thanks for all the suggestions.

[Marinemom]

I am glad you decided to give the discus their own tank with the cardinals..I am sure it is amazing. Your other tank with the angels sounds wonderful too. Keep up the good work.

Marinemom

[Mij]

Just an update, I've decided to have only discus/cardinals/ottos in the 72g. In the 55g I will have bosemani rainbows/rummynose tetras/angels. I will be doing 50% water changes twice a week in the discus tank and once a week in the angel tank.

I'll be doing one tank at a time starting with the 72g. Ill also add a log. Thanks for all the suggestions.
I have a 60g with four angels and one pair of turquoise rainbows, three McCullough rainbows, two bala sharks. They all get along very well. You should do fine.

[Marinemom]

I have a 60g with four angels and one pair of turquoise rainbows, three McCullough rainbows, two bala sharks. They all get along very well. You should do fine.

From the sound of the fish you have listed for a 60 gallon, it seems to me that you are overstocked. I have four angels in my 125 along with some rainbows and other small fish and I think the stocking is pretty full even though I have three canister filters going along with a HOB filter too. A 60 is too small for bala sharks. I think you may want to reconsider your stocking.

Marinemom

[Snow1576]

Really 75 degrees is just too cool for the discus. The discus require temps in the 82-86 degree range in order for them to be happy and not appear lethargic. Serpae tetras are known fin nippers and will most likely harass the discus to no end. Keeping them in a decent size school will help but really I would consider another kind of tetra to keep with them.

Marinemom

I beg to differ about the temp. My tanks temperature is 75 and my discus are active, eating and seem to be fine.

[pinkertd]

I absolutely agree with Marinemom, 75F is not warm enough for discus. In fact, I never kept any of my tropical fish tanks at that low of a temp. Eventually that temperature will take a toll on your discus. The higher temps keep their immune system in top shape.

[Star_Rider]

I aregg with pink and marine mom.
75 is too cool for discus. I keep my adults at 82+ even angels may stress at 75.

while you may get away with 75..it is not near an optimal temp for this species. and my subject the fish to cold chills.

[Snow1576]

Everywhere I go I read 80 so I finally raised the temp in my tank to 80! lol

[pinkertd]

Everywhere I go I read 80 so I finally raised the temp in my tank to 80! lol

:D Your discus will love you for that! We wouldn't tell you anything except the truth when it comes to keeping these guys. We've all tried methods of our own, maybe something we thought was good anyway, and we've all had sick discus, lost discus, and learned. Still learning! But with a successful tank full of healthy active big spawning fish. You might see that they become a bit hungrier now too which is good!