Ok....

[Spladdock]

Right i may get a link from someone here from another post but i have read the read b4 posting posts and it all goes over my head sorry complete noob here (mum usto do it when i was younger) i have now seen the amazing interest in Fish especally the Freshwater fish.. i understand they arnt just for show and what not but to be respected and of course i will respect that and that is the reason for this post befor going out and buyin the fish..
Simply what do i do right from the begining how long do i need the water standing and filtering for? and testing the lvls of what one of the posts was about? Also how could i introduce new fish to the tank without any stress, i usto leave the fish in the bag for a few hours to look inside and let the water change to the tank temperature i hope that is correct if not can you tell me how to do it right please? and also what type of water or how do i treat the water So it is fresh and no have all the cemicals from the filters from the local water company...
Anymore infomation you think i need please mension it will be greatly appresiated as this will be my very 1st set of fish on my own and Freshwater too

Thank you hope to hear from someone soon :)

[orlockorlok]

you can use water from your sink if you use a decloranator one that also removes cloramines due to most water treatment plants use it to . for a cycle usually a week or so should be good. be sure to add a little fish food to the tank after setting it up to help start the cycle. 15 to 20 min floating in the bag is usually good.

Russ

[Spladdock]

when you say add some fish food do u mean do that each day of the week you are waiting? or just the day you are putting the fish into the tank?
Also what do you mean about a declorinator do you mean by a water filter that you can buy or do you mean the chemicals you can buy from the fish shops? just being precise so i dont kill them :) Also about the plants how long would i have to wait untill i could place them in or could i put them in at the begning?

[lucy42083]

I'd read up on cycling...there is a great sticky on here about it. Sorry I don't have the time to write all the details right now (at work) but if you add fish to an uncycled tank it is a recipe for disaster, even with water changes every day and using dechlorinator, etc., the fish will probably die of ammonia or nitrite poisoning within a few weeks.

To do a fishless cycle, you need to start constantly (every day) adding a source of ammonia (pure ammonia works best, you can use fish food as another poster said), it usually takes far more than a week, more like 4 to 6 weeks. This is for the good bacteria to get established that will convert fish waste (ammonia - toxic to fish) to nitrite (again, toxic to fish) and then nitrite to nitrate (only toxic in very high levels, weekly water changes should keep it under 20 ppm). For all this to happen, like I said, usually takes 4 to 6 weeks. First you will get spikes in ammonia, then nitrite, then finally both will remain at 0 (the only level of these 2 chemicals that is safe for fish) and nitrates will be slowly rising -- then you are done cycling!!

Sorry for the super brief and general primer on cycling, but like I said, there's a sticky and some other great threads about cycling on this forum, just look them up. Good luck!

[SchizotypalVamp]

Yeah, you do NOT do a cycle with fish food. A cycle takes about a month and should be either done with fish(sort of cruel) or ammonia. There is a great page here, which I will edit my post to include in a sec...

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84598

Dechlorinator is labeled as such in the petstores and most people recommend prime or amquel +, it is needed because all water companies add chlorine and/or chloramine to their water, which is toxic to life. A filter is a device which traps mechanical particles in the water and is where bacteria grows to break down toxic compounds. You put plants in right at the beginning.

The unit "ppm" means "parts per million". You can buy ammonia, nitrate, nitrite(and PH, but we'll get to that later) test kits at any pet store, though i would personally recommend the API master test kit, which includes a few others you will need. Test strips are generally useless.

[Marinemom]

First of all, welcome to Aquaria Central. I hope you enjoy your stay.

Welcome to the world of fresh water fish keeping. First of all you will want to make sure that your tank is not leaking so I would recommend setting it up temporally in a garage and filling it full in there. Then let it stand a day or two and see if it leaks. If it does not then you can drain it and set it up in your house in the place where you will want it to be.Then you can start to fill the tank. You can use ordinary tap water as this is what is best for fresh water fish. The tap water has all of the necessary chemicals in it that is necessary for these kind of fish. Then you can set up the filter or filters you are planning on using for the tank and get them going. You may also want to put the heater in the water and start to heat the water. Depending on the size of the tank it may take a day or two for the temp in the tank to stabalize. Once it does and you plan to do a fishie cycle you can add some hardy fish to cycle with like danios or platys although may I suggest a fishless cycle instead. It is easier to do and is way more humane since there will be no fish in the tank. This way they will not be subject to the harsh cycling process that can leave them permantely damaged. I believe there is a sticky on the fishless cycling process. However if you do go the route of fishie cycling make sure you do not add too many fish at once. Only enough to get the cycle jump started. You will need to keep an eye on the water paremeters so testing everyday is advised. You will need a good test kit to test the water. May I suggest you get the aquarium pharmaceuticals master fresh water liquid test kit. It is the best one out there and will give you the best results.Stay away from the test strips since they are completely worthless. The cycle can take anywhere from 4-8 weeks even if you are doing a fishless cycle and sometimes longer so patience is key. Believe me in the end it will all be worth it.

Make sure that when ever you do a water change or are adding water to the tank such as topping it off due to evaporation, you use a declor to remove chlorine and chloramines from the water since they are very harmful to fish and are essenttially poison to them. This is of course if there are fish in the water but is not necessary if you do a fishless cycle.

Soon enough you will be cycled and then it will be safe to start adding fish. Just remember to add them slowly so you do not get a spike in water conditions that can prove harmful to the fish.

Good luck with it and if you have any other questions just ask.

Marineom

[Hooked Newbie]

This is from an info sheet I've been working on... there are MANY more details, but this should provide the "basics".




In a nutshell; Fish wastes as well as decomposing food, fish, and plant matter contain Ammonia. Over time, a naturally occurring bacteria colony gradually grows to consume it. These bacteria in turn produce Nitrite (NO2). Again, a naturally occurring bacteria colony gradually grows to consume it. These bacteria in turn produce Nitrate (NO3). Ammonia & Nitrite are EXTREMELY toxic to fish. Even if they survive until the colonies are established, they will have suffered poisoning and will be more susceptible to disease and shorter life spans. High Nitrate levels can also be harmful and must be kept in check by performing regular water changes (I recommend 25% weekly).
Ways to cycle your tank:
"Fishy" cycle- This isn't the preferred method, but is what most people do (even if they're not aware of it). If you go this route and want to avoid fish deaths (and a ton of frustration) during the process you will need to do daily 50% water changes. This need can be reduced if the stocking is light (1 or 2 fish) and an extremely hardy species is used (White Clouds are good).
Fishless cycle- The reason this isn't very popular among is because of the key ingredient, patience. This can be done several ways, but basically you replace the fish with a different ammonia source. The most commonly used are either fish flake or a prawn allowed to decompose. If you use a prawn place it into a stocking so that you can remove it without mess. You can also use pure ammonia (available at hardware stores), just be sure to not use anything with additives. You should be able to fully stock your aquarium when a fishless cycle is completed.
There are some very effective ways to speed / virtually eliminate a fishless cycle. The best, easiest, and most economical way is to get some used filter media from a friend or relative that already has a well established tank. This will "seed" your own media with both types of the good bacteria. There are also several products on the market which claim to "Instantly cycle" a tank. These claims are very suspect. Even more so for non-refrigerated products which are the most recommended in stores.

How do you know when your tank is fully cycled?
First, you'll need a good water test kit. Liquid tests are more accurate and will not expire as test strips will. I highly recommend the API Master Test Kits.
While cycling you will see...
1. Ammonia will increase with Nitrite & Nitrate at zero.
2. Nitrite will then appear and "spike" as Ammonia drops.
3. Nitrate will appear while Nitrite and Ammonia will drop to zero.
4. Once the Ammonia & Nitrite are stable at zero with Nitrate increasing you are done! If doing a fishless cycle, this should occur within 24 hours.

Why should I add fish slowly? The bacteria colonies need to grow in order to support the new additions or an ammonia spike may occur which can possibly kill your fish or at least make them more susceptible to disease.

[Marinemom]

You can put plants in as soon as the water temp is stsbalized. As far as acclimating fish you may want to look into the drip acclimation process. It is safer for the fish you just put the fish in a bucket along with the water they came in. Use some airline tubing and put one end in the tank and the other dripping into the bucket. Tie a knot on the end that drips into the bucket so you can control the flow of water coming into the bucket. As the water drips in the fish will slowly get used to the water from your tank so when they are added there will be less shock to them.After 30-45 minutes you can scoop them into the net and put them in your tank. I would keep the tank lights off for the first night so they can get used to their new tank. I also would not feed until the second night. This way they will acclimate better to your tank and you will have fewer problems with the fish dying or getting sick because of acclimating. I have used this method for years now and it has worked out beautifully.

Marinemom

[wataugachicken]

one issue with adding plants to a cycling tank is that you need to keep the lights on. high ammonia plus enough light for the plants equals lots of algae or even green water (free-floating algae cells in the water). plants also reduce the amount of bacteria that is 'grown' during the cycle because plants eat ammonia faster than bacteria does. if you don't really know what you're doing with the plants (all of mine always die) you're setting yourself up for ammonia and nitrite spikes once they start dying.

i think you should take it one step at a time.

learn about cycling. cycle the tank.
while waiting for the tank to be finished, research fish that you like.
once fish are in and doing well, start learning about plants. in most cases, it's much more involved than just sticking them into the tank. lighting requirements, fertilizers, algae control, using CO2, etc. . . .

[Spladdock]

When all the chemicals "spike" how do i put them back down to normal? or will it slowly do that itself ? and when i add the ammoia source do i only need to do it once or more? if more how offen will i need to do it? Also what temperature will it need to be ? i didnt know i needed a heater so will be looking into that soon

[wataugachicken]

read this - http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84598

and then we will answer any questions you have. this should explain almost everything you need to know.

[SchizotypalVamp]

You don't have to do anything, the bacteria convert them, and continue converting them, so that at any given time there is no trace of ammonia or nitrite in the tank.

From the cycling article :
"Add ammonia to bring the tank to a concentration of 5 ppm. The amount you add will vary with the size tank you have. Do not be in a rush. Add small amounts and test, repeating as necessary. If you get it too high, you can drain and refill."

Research what fish you want and preset the heater to the temperature which is good for the ones you choose to add to your tank. Even if you live in the hottest parts of the country, you will need a heater for most to all tropical fish.

Edit: I agree with the above:)

PS welcome to the wonderful world of fish!

[OldMan47]

I have a minor comment on marinemom's otherwise very good advice. Do not add water without dechlorinating it even if you are in a fishless cycle. The chlorine or chloramine in the water you add could kill the beneficial bacteria you are trying to get going. If you manage to kill off the bacteria, you get to start all over again. Things will be very frustrating if you are testing an empty tank for 3 or 4 months because you killed your bacteria off.

[Spladdock]

bloody hell there is so much stuff you have to do to prep it for the fish i so hope its worth it hehe especally that 4-6week wait! now i need to go hunting for fish and a heater and idea on what nice fish there are that will be good for a new comer with a small tank i think about a 10 gallon start off small :)

[wataugachicken]

start with the biggest tank you can afford and find space for. a larger tank not only allows for a much wider choice in fish, but is easier to maintain overall. a 10g tank, even though the price is low, really really limits what you can keep.

i know it seems like a lot right now, but once you start researching and learning more about the hobby it all eventually becomes basic knowledge to you. and honestly, learning everything up front will save you tons of frustration and money in the long run.

[SchizotypalVamp]

Wait- I just realized your post says you read the cycling thread, or at least, I believe it does. So let's start from the beginning:
The equipment you need, excluding tank furnishings, are:


The fish tank: Acrylic, plastic, or glass. Plastic will yellow with time and has the least visibility. Acrylic is stronger than glass and allows the most light to pass through, but scratches easily and is more expensive, also lighter than glass. Glass is what is traditionally used and has not failed the hobby yet.

Dechlorinator: for the aforementioned reasons

Test Kits: Besides testing for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, making sure that the bacteria(where does the bacteria come from? The air, trace amounts in the water, etc. They're all over the place, but need time to build up into a colony big enough to handle converting ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate. Where does the ammonia come from? Things decaying, such as food and fish poop. You can never keep an aquarium clean enough to keep this from happening) is doing its job, fish have evolved for millions of years in the water and adapted to certain levels of things called PH, GH, and KH. You don't need to know what they are to test their levels and know what fish can go in your tank, but PH is the concentration of hydroxide ions(again, you don't actually need to know what it is to test it and know the levels), GH, which stands for general hardiness and is the amount of dissolved minerals in the water(important because if the water is too hard oxygen does not pass through a fish's skin, amoung other things), and KH, the concentration of calcium ions, which keeps the PH from changing. Sudden changes in PH cause fish to die. Many hardy species of fish can be acclimatized to many PHes, and GHs. KHs you just need to know to know if your PH is going to suddenly change.

Many, including me, recommend API master test kits. Some of the best value for the money.
Nobody really trusts the hang-on monitors that you may see selling in stores.

Filter: I mentioned this in a previous post; while bacteria grows on all aquarium surfaces, the majority of it grows in your filter. This will naturally happen in the cycle. There are canister, hang-on-back, Undergravel(not recommended as sole filtration), biowheel, and sponge(not recommended as sole filtration) filters. Too tired to go into details.

Heater: Most tropical fish prefer a water temperature between 76-82 degress. Different species have different requirements. Many people have has experiences when using an oversized heater where it cooked or near-cooked their fish.

I use and recommend Stealth heaters.

Thermometer: Sometimes a heater can go AWOL or have unclear markings. It's good to know your temperature! Most people do not recommend digital thermometers.

Lighting/hood: Many fish jump straight out of the aquarium, so a cover is a good idea! If you're not going to try out plants, you can stick an incadescent bulb in there(standard bulb used in house holds), just be careful about how much heat it puts out. If you're going to grow plants, you need fluorescent or sodium halide/metal alkalide lamps(the latter is generally not used by beginners and is expensive!) Planted tank thread has more info.

I'm tired now. I think that's it.

Is there some sort of sticky on this somewhere? If not, should I edit this and post it up?

[Spladdock]

haha yeh im shattered as well m8 but im needin to know this info and get my fish on the go as soon as possible :p but no i dont think there is somthing that explains what u need and what it does if so i didnt find it, but i am pritty crap at findin posts so u neva kno, but would be helpful for you to put one up and thank you that really helped explain the basics :)

[Spladdock]

oh also what size would you recomend for a normal size that has a pritty big choice of what i could have? Am thinkin about an Oscar size one but i know i will need at least a 70G tank for that... so i might have to work my way up to that in the years dont want tht to be my 1st fish and poof be gone

[wataugachicken]

a 30 gallon would be a good place to start.

[Marinemom]

You will need a heater if you intend to keep tropicals.If it is a coldwater tank then a heater is not necessary. I am assuming you want a tropical tank since you also want to keep plants.

Marinemom

[sillypony]

Also a good size is a 55. Thats what I started with, and it works well, and you can put in a decent amount/decent sized fish in there with out trouble.

Keep in mind that the longer the tank, the more swimming room for schooling fish and bottom feeders. (I hope i'm not sharing too much info, but I would've been quite annoyed if i hadn't known this when buying mine).

While you are purchasing supplies, make sure you have a gravel vaccuum/siphon for water changes. Once you put fish in the tank, you need to take out 20%+ of your water, and replace it, once a week. This reduces the nitrate level and keep water clean. You do this with a siphon. I recommend a siphon about as tall as your tank is deep, which is labeled 'self starting.' If you get one thats too big, it won't self start, and you'll have to suck on the hose to start the siphon (ick!).

Anyways, when you do water changes, if you have gravel, you use the big end of the siphon to plunge into your gravel and suck up any extra food and waste thats down there. This is important for cleanliness and to help avoid ammonia and nitrite spikes.

When refilling your tank after the water change, either use a thermometer to check your tap water temperature, or just fill a cup with tank water and compare it to your tap until it feels right. Then fill your buckets, treat them with dechlorinator, and VERY slowly pour them in your tank, or, put them somewhere higher than the tank and siphon the water in.

Which brings me to another important peice of equipment- your bucket! Make sure to have AT LEAST one (i have three) bucket on hand. You drain water into this during water changes, fill it to refill the tank, and the bucket is also where i treat the water (as discussed) for chlorine. Make sure your bucket is devoted SOLELY to your fish tank (the mopping bucket, for example, is NOT, i repeat NOT, acceptable, any remaining chemicals from other uses will KILL your fish.)

Also, if you EVER see ammonia or nitrite in your tank AND you have fish in it, you MUST do a water change. Repeat until ammonia/nitrite = 0.

But all of this water change stuff isn't of concern until you get fish, while you cycle the tank, there is no need to change the water until ammonia and nitrite = 0 and you are ready to get fish.

Well, that's all i can think of that hasn't been mentioned. If you still have questions post 'em, and also look at the top few threads in every forum- they are called 'stickies' and usually have very important and useful information in them.

Good Luck

LeeAnna

[Hooked Newbie]

In regards to water changes, two words... Python and Prime. :grinyes:

[SchizotypalVamp]

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151143

[Star_Rider]

it really isn't that complicated.

take a deep breath.
as mentioned..set the tank up(usually someplace safe) check for leaks..if no leaks then drain and set the tank up where you want it as a display.(a good starter size tank is 29-30G)
add water, dechlorinator, filter, heater..let it run for a day or so to stabilize the temp and check to make sure everything is working)
add ammonia source, food, ammonia, shrimp from the grocery store..what ever.

let the tank run and check daily adding ammonia as needed. usually daily.

read the stickie re cycling .. let the tank run checking the parameters adding ammonia as needed.(ammonia, nitrite and nitrates) in about 4-6 weeks you have a cycled tank.
when the ammonia and nitrites read 0 for several days and you see nitrates.. do a 50% water change and go get your fish.
big thing..don;t let ammonia get too far out of the 4-5 ppm range..pH can affect the cycle especially if it drops to the low 6's

[PiscesPrincess]

Yeah, you do NOT do a cycle with fish food.
I do all my cycles fishless, using fish food. I have never had a bit of a problem, and it cycles within 4 weeks, maybe a little longer.

Once the tanks cycle, do a vac and partial water change, and you're good to go.

Patience is the key, don't get in a rush to add fish until the cycle is completely finished. You'll have much better luck with your fish that way.

Good luck! :-)