'm getting different info at each pet shop, please help

[e210benz]

help out please
i got a 20 gallon and its been running with fish for about 2 weeks,
ph a high and amonia is also high but nitrate is normal, the waters a bit cloudy and i got ich a week ago, no one told me not to add fish right away,anyways
i got 3 bala shark, angel fish, gourami, betta, white molly, 3 neon tetras and a red-tail shark
almost all of them had ich and i trated it with rid-ich and it started going away, some "expert" said to stop using it and recyle a little bit of the water(20%)
i have done 2 small water changes so far and also i noticed the ichs coming back, its made my props in the water blue which were white and i'm getting sick of this and either want my fish to make it or if not then die, i hate getting different advise and not knowing whose right....anyone please help out?

[famman]

Take the bala shark, and the red tailed shark back to the fish store, they will outgrow the tank and kill your other inhabitants. I'd shove them in the guy's face, he was obviously an idiot.
The angel will not do well in a 20 gallon in the long run but might do ok for now. I'd lose the beta too.
You might try to get some Bio Spira to cycle the tank right away.
You'll probably lose the neons during the cycle unless you get the bio spira in there quick.
Sounds like you got some really really really bad advise.
Read a lot on this board and do your best to keep the neons, molly, angel and gourami alive.
Raise the temp to 85F and add aquarium salt at the rate of 1 tblspn/gallon to get rid of the ich.
After a week, if no more ich, do 50% water change, no salt.
sorry for your bad experience.
try to be patient with your tank, if you can get past this they should do ok.
good luck
:)

[e210benz]

thanks for the advice, as for the fish i can't return any cause its past the 15 day because i was thinking about it, i really love my sharks and one day i would get a bigger tank, like a 50 or 80 gallon but their babies right now, all my fish are pretty small, and i also read about bigger tanks for the sharks, they all get along only prob is this ich abnd high levels, whats Bio Spira? and also the water was at 84 until recently cause my rooms hot, now its at 80, i don;t have a heater, and also will the salt hurt the sharks or any of my fish?

[ChilDawg]

Bio-Spira: nitrification bacteria in a bottle. Very useful.

The balas will need at least a 90 on their own.

The RTBS may never accept anything coming close to the bottom--give it a hide-out or two and it might be a little less edgy...you need at least a 30 for them.

[ChilDawg]

A WTF moment: Bettas and gouramis together?

Anabantoids aren't very tolerant of their own kind in the same tank, and this will cause some stress! Get the Betta its own tank, stat.

Also, the Neons need to be kept in a larger shoal.

[ChilDawg]

Clarification: the WTF is not directed at you...but the idiot who sold you those fish at the same time and never told you at any point that they were incompatible.

[carpguy]

Actual tank parameters are always helpful.

You have a heavy fish load for a cycling tank. If you don't keep the ammonia levels as low as possible via water changes you won't need to worry about returning the fish. Nitrates (which are much less toxic than ammonia or nitrites) will show up later as the Cycle gets established. Their absence means your still in the early stages without a nitrite-procesing crew.

BioSpira can help speed things along. Its the only bacteria-in-a-bottle product that seems promising, early reports are good. I'd give it a try if you can find it.

IME carpminnows grow fast. The Balas should outgrow your tank in a few months. If they don't its not a good thing, it means their growth is being stunted. A 50g will be too small for them, and All-Glass's 80g would be too narrow. Think 75g minimum, 100g would be better. 18 inches wide minimum, 24 inches would be better. They're big fish.

The ich isn't what turned your ornaments(?) blue. The Rid-Ich is the more likely culprit. The ich is most likely a sign of stress from cycling live and overstocking. its a parasite that healthy fish can often resist. Take a look at the Skeptical Aquarist (http://www.skepticalaquarist.com) under Health and Diseases. Bookmark this site right away: it has more useful info than you can shake a stick at. Check under Health & Diseases. You'll find Parasites: Protozoa and a page on Ich, and also Treatments with a page on Salt.

Its a great hobby, but a hobby for the patient. Try not to be too frustrated. You've made a few beginner mistakes and you're getting off to a rough start. You can recover and hopefully most of your fish will as well. I'd take at least the Balas back for whatever sort of credit you can get, including none. Probably the angel as well.

In the event that you lose the whole tank (which isn't a foregone conclusion), you might want to try fishless cycling.

Read through some threads around here, read through the Skeptical website, ask as many questions as you want -- its a helpful and friendly community. Welcome aboard.

[ChilDawg]

Yeah, it is friendly here...I'd like to apologize for my tone, but mixing Anabantoids is my pet peeve. Just remember, my bark is worse than my bite (except my biting wit...hehehe) and I never mean to be mean unless it is justifiable, which it is obviously not in this case.

[RedTez]

Hi e210benz

Welcome to the fascinating world of Aquaria and may it long reward you with as much pleasure as it has me. Fish keeping can be 1 of 2 scenarios, 1st being a stress relieving sucessful hobby or 2nd - a stress inducing, unsucessful hobby. I suggest like me you want the 1st case scenario as opposed to the 2nd. The way to achieve this is to look into every thing before committing anything to your tank. The way to the 2nd worse case scenario is to not look into anything and add what looks good and think "Whatever". Listening to what people are trying to tell you can save you from having the tank with the most problems anyone could possibly imagine instead making you the proud owner of a fantastic, highly succesful tank. Great aquarists have tanks with virtually no problems and a beautiful underwater world to look at to boot.

I want to express the importance of researching over and over again, as first and foremost you need to be aware these are live critters you are attempting to maintain. Secondly, the hobby in general isn't cheap and the cost will escalate out of all proportion if you are running back to the LFS for more and more cures, remedies, fish etc., etc..

You are keeping tropical fish and you decide to have no heater?? Come on, whats the matter with you?? Everywhere in the world has cold moments, and allowing water to swing from 80 to 84 willy nilly is not the right start. Buy a heater, since cold water is often the singlemost instigator of ich, i suggest this is problem 1. Whilst your tank is cycling with live victims i would suggest you water change daily, and with water at the right perameters particulary in regards to temp, ph and hardness. If you are using tap water, please also make sure it is safely dechlorinated.

People have already told you the bala shark is on a hiding to nothing because it will out grow your setup pretty soon. In reality it already has, keeping him/her in your little tank will stunt his development so IF you ever do get a bigger setup to house him in, you will have a stunted speciman and not a fish that displays it's full potential. An expensive BIG setup housing a stunted speciman?? is that what you want to have??

As already suggested, read up on every thing you intend to put in the tank - BEFORE you get it. Then you can make an informed choice and save on all the expensive mistakes. Avoid impulse purchases at ALL costs - as a tank that flits from one problem to another is not a pretty site. Sometimes even following the rules, problems still arise, but to just proceed with no regards to common sense is plain stupid and ultimately cruel.

Don't take this as a personal attack - i mean it as a wake up call to you and all other beginners who treat keeping fish like collecting baseball cards. You cant keep everything you like the look of, you have to choose from the vast numbers of species available and certainly not collect one of each. A few fish of a single type looks much more dramatic than one of many different types. Five or six fish of 2 or 3 different but compatible species is one of the best sights imaginable. Twenty healthy cardinals and 7 active lemon Tetras with 8 spectacular adult discus fish would astound and captivate the viewer. Where as one with as many different fish from different water biotopes chasing/hounding each other until their dieing in the corner of the tank would make most viewers watch the telly.

Best Regards ALL




http://www.cbx1100xx.btinternet.co.uk/Syn1.jpg

P.S. Good Luck and Best Wishes.

[ChilDawg]

Originally posted by RedTez
You are keeping tropical fish and you decide to have no heater?? Come on, whats the matter with you?? Everywhere in the world has cold moments, and allowing water to swing from 80 to 84 willy nilly is not the right start...

Your point would have been made well without this statement, which seems too much like an attack. My point about your point has been made, and I will not pursue it any further.


e210benz:
I do advocate research, and I think that it would be a good idea in this case. Please consider returning your fish and starting over from scratch because this amalgam is in a world of trouble as it stands right now.