View Full Version : Please wish my Frontosa luck that he makes it through the night!!!
I had a little Red Devil that I was growing out in my 20G tank before I put him in the 125G with all the big boys, well it looks like Ill be moving him before I think he is ready as he just killed 3 tiger barbs and beat the crap out of a frontosa to within an inch of his life in a single night. Guess he is gonna have an attitude lol. Anyway wish my Front luck, I really dont want to loose him! And wish my Devil luck that he isnt too little to swim with the big boys!!!!!!
Lady G
05-19-2008, 6:30 PM
Gosh, sorry to hear that...I sure do hope he pulls through! RDs yep..they are really aggressive fish, no matter their size. What all do you have in the 125?
Gosh, sorry to hear that...I sure do hope he pulls through! RDs yep..they are really aggressive fish, no matter their size. What all do you have in the 125?
Oh Ive got a 14 inch RD, a 15 inch BS, and several African Cichlids, 3 convicts, 2 dempsey's, a leporinus, and a RTBS. So far it looks like the little devil is doing REALLY well in there, the little Front in the smaller tank's life still hangs in the balence:(
Rbishop
05-19-2008, 8:17 PM
Wish you luck, but more so, wish you would reconsider that mix.
BigFishKeeper
05-19-2008, 8:28 PM
Wish you luck!!
Wish you luck, but more so, wish you would reconsider that mix.
Cmon now, being against mixing american and african cichlids is so old fashoned:) There is nothing wrong with it.
grannylvsfish
05-19-2008, 8:48 PM
yikes, not a cool mix. I wish you luck, or the frontosa luck. when that devil gets bigger he will also make mince meat out of the fire mouths and a few other :(
I dont think thats gonna happen, 1st of all I dont have any firemouths and second I already have a 14 inch devil in there, he's been in there for a long time and things are fine.
grannylvsfish
05-19-2008, 9:31 PM
I dont think thats gonna happen, 1st of all I dont have any firemouths and second I already have a 14 inch devil in there, he's been in there for a long time and things are fine.
sorry I meant convits :lol: I was looking at my fire mouth as I was typing :lmao:
sorry I meant convits :lol: I was looking at my fire mouth as I was typing :lmao:
Well the cons kinda keep to themselves, they have this little cave that they like to hang out in and the devil never bothers them, they are probably just too small in comparison to command his attention.
kay-bee
05-19-2008, 9:51 PM
Out of curiousity, how large is the frontosa?
Out of curiousity, how large is the frontosa?
They are small, 2 inches, the devil was half an inch when I put him in there, He is also about 2 inches now. His growth rate is unbelievably fast. My little front didnt make it unfortunatly. But the good news is that the devil is looking right at home with the big boys.
derekp
05-19-2008, 11:07 PM
I think that mix is fine. I have a convict in with africans and he is fine, nobody picks on him.
I think that mix is fine. I have a convict in with africans and he is fine, nobody picks on him.
I agree, mixing african and american is easy to be successful at yet some people react like you are mixing salt with fresh lol
Lady G
05-20-2008, 12:34 AM
Awww, sorry to hear he didn't make it!! Good to hear your RD is doing well though. That is quite a mix you got there though, just watch em (which I'm sure you do). I have a pretty big mix myself, and over all no problems although my Midas is starting to get a bit more aggressive toward one of my JDs.
Good luck with everything.:)
mostlycichlids
05-20-2008, 12:51 AM
I agree, mixing african and american is easy to be successful at yet some people react like you are mixing salt with fresh lol
The problem is temperment of any said fish. While mixing is done more these days it depends on many factors if it will work. In the case of this thread A font and a RD is not a good mix and will not work 99% of the time. The Font is by far less territorial than almost all the other fish you had. Sorry to hear about your loss but on the other hand I would of done more research. Any red devil I have ever kept had to be kept alone. Not to mention your fish are still very small. It is easy to put just about any fish together at a small size.
Awww, sorry to hear he didn't make it!! Good to hear your RD is doing well though. That is quite a mix you got there though, just watch em (which I'm sure you do). I have a pretty big mix myself, and over all no problems although my Midas is starting to get a bit more aggressive toward one of my JDs.
Good luck with everything.:)
Thanx for the condolences, the little front will be missed but at least it looks like the little devil is gonna do really well, sorry to hear about your midas and jd's not getting along, my other devil is freakishly large, I think he is so much bigger than my JD's that he dosent even bother with them. My black shark is the only other fish Ive got thats of equal size to my devil and he is far more antagonistic than the devil with the other fish.
The problem is temperment of any said fish. While mixing is done more these days it depends on many factors if it will work. In the case of this thread A font and a RD is not a good mix and will not work 99% of the time. The Font is by far less territorial than almost all the other fish you had. Sorry to hear about your loss but on the other hand I would of done more research. Any red devil I have ever kept had to be kept alone.
No I agree about the front and the devil but the arrangement was suppose to be VERY temperary and the devil was very small, I wanted him to gain about 1 more inch before putting him in the large tank but it seems like he is gonna be ok anyway.
BigFishKeeper
05-20-2008, 7:38 AM
aww sorry that about fron. Get another one.
kay-bee
05-20-2008, 12:45 PM
aww sorry that about fron. Get another one.
Not really the ideal set up for frontosa's considering what is in the tank. There have been comments made about mixing them is not a problem or an 'old fashioned' ideology, but look at what has happened. Hopefully replacing it won't be considered.
Adding another frontosa (new passive fish) to this set up (containing established aggressive species) would be placing the front into a seriously disadvantaged situation and would be a mistake.
Lady G
05-20-2008, 1:54 PM
I think the Front was in a different tank, and he added the RD in to "grow-out" unfortunately even smaller RDs can be really aggressive.
Inka4040
05-20-2008, 2:40 PM
I'm sure you know fronts can get to be over a foot long. Even at that size though, dude wouldn't have cut it in your 125. I wouldn't suggest getting another one unless you've got a place for it to go when it outgrows that 20.
mostlycichlids
05-21-2008, 1:07 AM
Not really the ideal set up for frontosa's considering what is in the tank. There have been comments made about mixing them is not a problem or an 'old fashioned' ideology, but look at what has happened. Hopefully replacing it won't be considered.
Adding another frontosa (new passive fish) to this set up (containing established aggressive species) would be placing the front into a seriously disadvantaged situation and would be a mistake.
Exactly the point I was trying to get across!
^^^Geeze sometimes I wonder if some of you people even bother to read the whole thread before replying, the Fronts are not and never were in with all the other agressive established species in the 125G tank.
kay-bee
05-22-2008, 1:36 AM
It's understood that the frontosa was small and killed by similarly sized RD while in still the 20gal grow out tank.
My statement discouraging placing a frontosa into a tank containing established aggressive species was in response to BigFishKeeper's "Get another one" and was not about the frontosa that was lost but rather any potential frontosa replacement. You never stated you were going to acquire another frontosa.
lovejonesx
05-23-2008, 3:53 PM
Wish you luck, but more so, wish you would reconsider that mix.
Agree with rbishop & not just b/c it's mixing American-esque cichlids with African Cichlids,...it's also for other reasons.
Like the different water parameters that some of those fish naturally would require...
...or b/c it's not even wise to put Frontosa in a tank with other more aggressive AFRICANS, (even if you ignore the others).
The mix, like rbishop has said is a problem at the base of any & everything else here IMopinion
ljx
Different PH requirements are a myth that OLD timers seem to cling to. Fish can SO easily be adapted to different PH levels. We are not talking about putting a salt water fish into fresh water here. Ive never ever lost a fish due to the PH being different than what certain people believe it ought to be, for that matter Ive never even had a fish that was even close to unhealthy being in a different PH than what some people believe it ought to be. We are not talking about wild caught fish here, if we were I might say you possibly have a point, all these fish are bread in commercial fish hatcheries for generations, PH is a non factor. These are not wild fish thus their recreated aquarium habitats do not have to be identical to their natural habitats. Do you think the dog in your backyard still needs to kill other animals and eat raw meat to survive and be healthy? NO, they have been bread in captivity long enough that they no longer require the exact same conditions as they would as wild animals. The same can be said of store bought fish and PH levels.
Different PH requirements are a myth that OLD timers seem to cling to. Fish can SO easily be adapted to different PH levels. We are not talking about putting a salt water fish into fresh water here. Ive never ever lost a fish due to the PH being different than what certain people believe it ought to be, for that matter Ive never even had a fish that was even close to unhealthy being in a different PH than what some people believe it ought to be. We are not talking about wild caught fish here, if we were I might say you possibly have a point, all these fish are bread in commercial fish hatcheries for generations, PH is a non factor. These are not wild fish thus their recreated aquarium habitats do not have to be identical to their natural habitats. Do you think the dog in your backyard still needs to kill other animals and eat raw meat to survive and be healthy? NO, they have been bread in captivity long enough that they no longer require the exact same conditions as they would as wild animals. The same can be said of store bought fish and PH levels.
Putting SW and FW fish together is a different story compared to putting two genera of cichlids with different requirements, not just water parameters. Whatever works for you is fine but we do not generally encourage what we consider a big risk. To each his own.
Rbishop
05-25-2008, 8:03 AM
Breeding them in water they have adapted to does not change their natural genetics. It takes a bit more time to change genetics.
While most all fish adapt to varying pH and can easily be maintained in waters far different from the wild caught, it doesn't mean they will be at their best.
I have nothing against mixing the two, African/SA-Ca, for an experienced hobbyist, but I don't recommend it to folks entering the hobby, or too folks who are establishing bio tanks. If you want one of everything in your tank, thats is cool.
lovejonesx
05-28-2008, 12:26 PM
Again, rbishop has said basically what I would reply.
SALT WATER/FRESH WATER FISH & DOG IN BACK YARD,...aside, (as bad as I think those comparisons are).....
I don't think that just b/c it can be done, & your fish survive it & never look unhealthy, that speaks to them being in their optimal environment or conditioning.
BUT OVERALL,...I would not do it, & that is how I reply & what is reflected in how I keep my fish, but if you are doing it with what you deem is success, then MORE POWER TO YA! :)
ljx
severum mama
05-28-2008, 12:57 PM
It seems to me that when it was recommended to not replace the frontosa, it was already understood that the fish didn't live in the 125. However, did you have a different plan for the front for when it would outgrow the 20? Or were you planning on putting it in the 125? Even at adult size, a front is imo a poor choice for a tank with a huge red devil and other aggressive tankmates. Water perameters aside, fronts are simply much different behaviorally than SA/CAs.
If I sound like an "old-timer", I can assure you I'm not. I'm simply a hobbyist who has made many mistakes and has been involved in the hobby long enough to learn from them. And I personally give a lot of weight to the opinions of the "old timers" who are going out of their way to help others and explain the reasoning behind their opinions. To me that is much more valuable than simply being told what I want to hear. As always, YMMV, but there's generally a good reason for it when the more experienced folks reach a consensus. ;)
TheFishLady
06-01-2008, 2:41 AM
What a mess. There is validity to not mixing South & Central American cichlids with Africans, and it is based on environmental needs for the fish. South and Central American cichlids generally need soft water, while Africans need hard water. Aggression levels aside... that is a very poorly mixed tank.
I noticed the comment that says they've been in there for "a while", but how many years is "a while"? Some of those fish should live 30+ yrs, but if they're not in a proper environement, you just cut that 30+ yr lifespan down to 2 - 5 yrs. I think that is very sad for those fish. If people want to keep pets that is fine, but those pets should be properly provided for and allowed to live a happy, healthy, and full life.
Long term if fish are kept in water params that differ greatly from what they need, it causes internal damage, which is what shortens the lifespan. Because we can't openly see internal damage happening, many people dismiss it as myth. I have opened up enough of those poor animals who have died over the years in such ways, and their internal organs are always a mess. I can't imagine how badly they suffered before they died.
So when you want to argue about what you CAN do, remember that what we CAN do isn't always the RIGHT thing to do.
lovejonesx
06-03-2008, 11:27 AM
What a mess. There is validity to not mixing South & Central American cichlids with Africans, and it is based on environmental needs for the fish. South and Central American cichlids generally need soft water, while Africans need hard water. Aggression levels aside... that is a very poorly mixed tank.
I noticed the comment that says they've been in there for "a while", but how many years is "a while"? Some of those fish should live 30+ yrs, but if they're not in a proper environement, you just cut that 30+ yr lifespan down to 2 - 5 yrs. I think that is very sad for those fish. If people want to keep pets that is fine, but those pets should be properly provided for and allowed to live a happy, healthy, and full life.
Long term if fish are kept in water params that differ greatly from what they need, it causes internal damage, which is what shortens the lifespan. Because we can't openly see internal damage happening, many people dismiss it as myth. I have opened up enough of those poor animals who have died over the years in such ways, and their internal organs are always a mess. I can't imagine how badly they suffered before they died.
So when you want to argue about what you CAN do, remember that what we CAN do isn't always the RIGHT thing to do.
Great reply Fishy!
VERY WELL SPOKEN!:headbang2:
Nice fish costume too!:grinyes:
ljx