I'm so confused

[sschind]

As everyone knows, Cichlid keeping has come a long way since I first got into fish keeping about 20 years ago. I am amazed at the variety available today and the colors of some of the fish are truly stunning. The problem I have with my fish, and my reptiles, is that I prefer to keep normals rather than morphs (those are the terms we use in the reptile hobby, I'm not sure if they apply to the fish hobby or not) what I mean is I like the fish as they look in the wild. Selective breeding to create an all red variety of a particular fish does nothing for me. To me, geographical variants are far more interesting than any man made fish. Of course hybrids are evil:) Not a big deal you say, well, for someone just getting started with Cichlids it can be a big problem. I look on place like aquabid and I see incredible fish and I can't help but think that they must be selectively bred for those colors. Is there a place that would have pictures (preferably more than one) of a typical peacock found in a specific location in lake Malawi. Even if there are not pictures, a list of true species would be very helpful. I've looked at many sites, this one included and I seem to come away even more confused. Of course I will keep looking but I thought if anyone here could point me to any other sites that I might miss I would appreciate it.

Thanks

Steve

OK, Edit time.. I just found a website called big sky cichlids. In their Malawi cichlid section they have a listing down the left hand side of the page like this
Aulonocara stuartgranti "cobue" (http://www.bigskycichlids.com/Astuartgranti_cobue.htm)
Aulonocara stuartgranti "maleri" (http://www.bigskycichlids.com/Astuartgranti_maleri.htm)
Aulonocara stuartgranti "maulana" (http://www.bigskycichlids.com/Astuartgranti_maulana.htm)
Aulonocara stuartgranti "ngara" (http://www.bigskycichlids.com/Astuartgranti_ngara.htm)
Aulonocara stuartgranti "usisya" (http://www.bigskycichlids.com/Astuartgranti_usisya.htm)
I am assuming that all these fish are geographical variants of the same fish. I like these fish. What I wouldn't like for example, is a A.s "maulana" that was selectively bred to be all yellow. Hopefully you can see what I am looking for now.

I like this big sky site. So far it seems to be giving me more of what I am looking for than any other site I have found.

Thanks Again

Steve

[mdwalt1]

I find this site helpful. Maybe it will be what you're looking for.
http://www.vatoelvis.com/Home.php

FYI - Alot of the colorful fish you're speaking of are not hybrids exactly, but line bred (offspring with sibilngs or parents) to isolate those with dominate coloring and perpetuate it. I find nothing wrong with this practice.

[Lady G]

I've used this site quite a bit...http://www.malawimayhem.com/

[mdwalt1]

Lady G - Thanks for this link. It's one of the best for Malawi's that I've ever seen!

[Mij]

I find this site helpful. Maybe it will be what you're looking for.
http://www.vatoelvis.com/Home.php

FYI - Alot of the colorful fish you're speaking of are not hybrids exactly, but line bred (offspring with sibilngs or parents) to isolate those with dominate coloring and perpetuate it. I find nothing wrong with this practice.
I agree that line breeding is ok and much different than a hybrid. So long as too much inbreeding is not practiced so that you start getting deformities. Just as sex sells on tv, vivid coloration sells in tropical fish. It all depends if you like natural or more appealing. If you lean more towards natural, then you will most likely be purchasing wild caught fish. Not everyone can afford to buy wild caught fish as they are usually far more expensive. Now if you lean more towards more vivid coloration, then you will most likely buy tank raised fish with the most appealing colors and characteristics. The debate goes on and on and will always be. Just a matter of individual taste.

[Lady G]

No problem, when I had my african tank...I went there all the time! ;)

[Coler]

www.cichlidforum.com (http://www.cichlidforum.com) also very good

[terror spawnin]

Lake Malawi started with one species of cichlid many moons ago. Today over 850 different species have developed from them. (according to scientists that studied this)

Maybe having a hybrid isn't so bad after all.

[kay-bee]

The myriad and diversity of cichlid species in the rift lakes are the result of localized adaption rather than the product of hybridization.

[terror spawnin]

The myriad and diversity of cichlid species in the rift lakes are the result of localized adaption rather than the product of hybridization.

How do you know? Is this a guess?
Havn't you ever heard of natural hybrids?
Local adaptation is how a species adapts to a new environment.
Natural hybridization gives you the crazy looking genetic variables that have less to do with adaptation.

[sschind]

Thanks for the links. I will check them out. Line breeding doesn't bother me as much as hybridization. I just don't care for those fish personally. Someone takes a a species of peacock from location "A" that normally has a yellow body and blue face and line breeds it to get rid of either the blue or the yellow. Not hybridization obviously but still it creates something unnatural (IMO) and I don't care for it. Give me a nicely colored specimen of the same fish with the yellow body and blue face and I will be happy. Now, if 150 miles further down the coastline (location B) that same species occurs with no yellow or no blue then that I would accept but saying you created a location B locality fish from a location A locality by line breeding is not accurate in my opinion.

There is no right or wrong to this and many people get defensive. I don't know why. Maybe its because some people are so vocal in their condemnation of such practices that those who do this kind of thing feel like they are being attacked. I don't know why people can't simply say. I don't care for it and leave it at that, and have people respect their opinions.