Cyano is killing me!

[AquatiCreations]

Every morning its the same thing.I get up go to the bathroom,then go to the tank and swirl/scrub the cyano so it dosent accumulate. it grows over the sand and rocks.Its a redish brown algae and likes to grow practically anywhere(Even on my sponges!) This is really getting on my nerves,I WANT TO TERMINATE IT FOR GOOD.My water params are peak. Lighting 10K 60 watt output X2.(Brand new bulbs) Photo period of 10-11Hours maximum.Fed sparingly twice a day once early morning -once before bed.Currently have 3 atlantic turbo snails. Two true ocellaris. 1 peppermint shrimp, and one yellow tail damsel. Are there any easy fixes to this problem?:help:
Thanks
-AC

[TropicalNorth]

On physical removal its best to syphon it off the rocks and out of the tank during a partial water change, scrubbing can just spread it around.

I take it your tank is fairly new? Most new tanks go through a cyano phase, not all tanks do and sometimes its just some tiny patches but many tanks do. It should pass eventually with good water quality but in some cases it just never goes away. There are lots of things that can possibly cause cyano to grow; nutrients (phosphates being especially important), certain types of lighting, water flow, unstable water parameters etc etc. Basically lots of things. Sometimes tanks that are years old can get a cyano outbreak too, for no real apparent reason.

To get rid of it you've got to be methodical. Change one thing, see if it works and if it doesn't change something else. First thing is water changes, maybe increase size and/or frequency, maybe change salt brand. Adding filter media that removes phosphates and other nutrients. Increasing the flow in the tank. Shorten the time lights are on. Add a skimmer. Even after doing all these things you may not get rid of it completely, and then you've just got to be patient and see if time will do the trick.

My 20g went through every algae stage known to man in the first year. I just didn't let it get to me and kept modifying things. I tried a few things but the biggest help seemed to be adding a skimmer. Some nano's don't need a skimmer but mine did.

The January 2007 pic is a week or so into the cycle.

[AquatiCreations]

Yea it can completely grow back in a day..i thinks its ticking on of my snails off i have to scrub him everyonce in a while to get him clean.And get this it grows ONTOP of my chaetomorpha alage on algae its crazy!

[bluegrizzlies1]

I had troubles too was using walmart purple cap distilled water an got cyno bad.

I started using ro di water and it cleared up I finally bought my own rodi water machine and everything is good.

A young tank about 3 months old are prone to get cyno part of the cycle I heard.

[Almondsaz]

It is a pain, I am going through the same thing, but starting to see some success. If you look up cyano on WWM or other sources the bottom line seems to be an increase in flow. I have noticed that where I change the flow I get great results fairly quickly. I don't have the hang of all the angles etc on my tank as it is 6' long and takes a bit of maneuvering to get things right. The manual effort you put into cleaning the rock and removing it from the sand will pay dividends. Really frustrating stuff and a lot of work.....but worth it in the end. Good luck.

[mcsassy]

That really sucks...how does it happen? I have some reddish stuff too but its not cyano...its hard algae...how do you prevent it? Looks sad. Doesn't coraline grow over it if it happens? What does it eat to survive and spread?

[Reefscape]

That really sucks...how does it happen?

<<It happens from a few reasons...Low flow, high nutrients, bad lighting>>

I have some reddish stuff too but its not cyano...its hard algae...how do you prevent it?

<<If its the hard stuff, its coralline algae which is fine to leave and you dont want to prevent its growth>>

Looks sad. Doesn't coraline grow over it if it happens?

<<Coralline wont grow over cyano bacteria, no>>

What does it eat to survive and spread?

<<Nutrients for the most part>>



Added a few comments in red..

[mcsassy]

What do you mean by nutrients? Is it from over feeding?

[journey0820]

I had a patch growing on my sand bed this morning and added a powerhead...it's almost all gone. Maybe try extra flow?

[wantvws]

I feel for ya....I am battling my second outbreak of cyano, although this one is not nearly as bad as the first. This one seems to be concentrated in the center of my tank, so I moved some powerheads around to get some more flow there....we'll see if it works. I also have some rusty brown stuff that is not in there in the AM but has come back by the time the lights go off in the PM.
But I have tons of coraline coming in, so it's not all irritating!
Robbie

[kcress]

What do you mean by nutrients? Is it from over feeding?

Nitrates = plant food.
Nitrates are what farmers pay $$$ for to get their plants growing.

Fish food => fish poop => ammonia => nitrites => nitrates

[mcsassy]

^ Sweet deal. So if you have low nitrates that means the algae is eating it? The red algae I have the tangs, angel and crabs eat. What do you think it is?

[AquatiCreations]

So your saying more flow?

[kcress]

^ Sweet deal. So if you have low nitrates that means the algae is eating it? The red algae I have the tangs, angel and crabs eat. What do you think it is?

Generally your statement isn't exactly correct.

If you have any algae then it is thriving on your nitrate.

If you have low nitrate it is more likely that you are not over feeding your tank. That you have a good food system going. That you have no nitrate factories. You don't let a lot of waste pile up somewhere. If all this is running well then your refuge algae can help keep your existing nitrate levels low and controlled.

AquatiCreations; Besides the correct light and the nutrient issues whether an algae flourishes or just survives or gets out-competed totally can come down the flow. A lot of algae doesn't adhere well to stuff and flow will mess it up. If it keeps getting messed up it can't proliferate. Eventually if it's cellular death rate exceeds its reproduction rate it will recede. Eventually that particular type of algae will 100% die off in your system. Then THAT particular algae may no longer present an issue for you.

[mcsassy]

Kcress, I don't have any nitrate issues though...to be honest I haven't ever done a water change and my system has been up for almost 7 months and I have never had a water clarity issue or ammonia, nitrite or nitrate issue...yes I do check my conditions regularly and monitor every chemical...I do have a great cleaning crew (some hermits, emerald crab, some snails, sand sifting star tiger tail cucumber, orange spotted goby) and plus my fish seem to enjoy eating eachother's poo too every so often hah! I have a pretty thick sand bed as well. The next thing I want to get is a tunze wavebox before I get corals because it will be good for the tangs and for moving everything around nicely...expensive but what isn't in this hobby? I also use a nitrate sponge sponge that I replace every so often...call me what you will but I'm happy and so are my pets.

[noskimmer]

High flow, apart from removing cyano mechanically seems it inherently does not like flow. It is also one of the few bacteria that removes nitrates aerobically. In addition it thrives on the longer end of the light spectrum, hence cyano usually means, increase flow and time to change the lights. I have cyano, it seems I always will, but it is in the dark low flow areas of my sump, so try not to starve it of light.

[AquatiCreations]

well im glad to say its starting to recede some ,when i get the chance im going to pick up a maxi jet,as well as get something to clean my sand bed.

[Catpicklesdog]

I have to admit it was the introduction of more powerheads, reduced lighting and cut down on feeding that finally won the battle on mine.


oh and I got an RO/DI unit aswell.

[Amphiprion]

Well, most cyanobacteria are capable of fixing atmospheric nitrogen, so eliminating nitrates is only one step. Limiting phosphates will have a more profound effect, IME. I wouldn't say that a change in spectrum influences cyanobacterial growth--it merely favors it. In other words, it isn't that they prefer those spectra--cyanobacteria will thrive in most spectra--but when those parameters drift out of the favored range for other organisms, the cyanobacteria are able to outcompete them for nutrients, since they are so effective at doing so. However, if nutrients are limited in the first place, even a drifted spectrum won't be an issue, nor will an increase in light/photoperiod or an increase in temperature.

[noskimmer]

From literature that I have read, it seems that cyanobacteria thrive's on light in about the 525nm range, where they have optimal growth. This is the red cyano, and not the blue-green, which thrive in conditions where the light is much longer, say in the 600nm range.

Now we know, as your lights get older, like us we have difficulty keeping things tight... so, our expensive MH's (and other lighting) start to degrade, resulting in longer wavelengths.

In addition, I know and from what aquaticreations has quoted and from my own tank (0 trates), it seems nutrients have little to do with it.. well that is a little stupid to say that, because everything requires some type of nutrient..

But why not grow in the form of a different type of algae?

And why, if water is ruled out by having the same water in my sump, and the same water in my tank, do I have cyano in my sump (in the dark area's as well) but not in my tank?

Cyanobacteria are prokaryotic (meaning they don't have a nucleus). They are considered phototrophs, as they derive energy from light, and are capable of photosynthesis. We also know that they are (contrary to what they are referred to) not algae, but bacteria, meaning they reproduce by fission or splitting (a form of asexual reproduction) to multiply.. now this part is where I start to believe in the light thing, because:


if mechanically it can't stay where it is if you blast it, or increase flow, and.
If it's survival is based on nutrients alone, why doesn't it just relocate and "fission" away somewhere else?
If I solely replace my bulbs and nothing else, it dies...

I don't know all the answer's... It's just some things just don't make sense..

[Amphiprion]

From literature that I have read, it seems that cyanobacteria thrive's on light in about the 525nm range, where they have optimal growth. This is the red cyano, and not the blue-green, which thrive in conditions where the light is much longer, say in the 600nm range.

Now we know, as your lights get older, like us we have difficulty keeping things tight... so, our expensive MH's (and other lighting) start to degrade, resulting in longer wavelengths.

In addition, I know and from what aquaticreations has quoted and from my own tank (0 trates), it seems nutrients have little to do with it.. well that is a little stupid to say that, because everything requires some type of nutrient..

But why not grow in the form of a different type of algae?

And why, if water is ruled out by having the same water in my sump, and the same water in my tank, do I have cyano in my sump (in the dark area's as well) but not in my tank?

Cyanobacteria are prokaryotic (meaning they don't have a nucleus). They are considered phototrophs, as they derive energy from light, and are capable of photosynthesis. We also know that they are (contrary to what they are referred to) not algae, but bacteria, meaning they reproduce by fission or splitting (a form of asexual reproduction) to multiply.. now this part is where I start to believe in the light thing, because:


if mechanically it can't stay where it is if you blast it, or increase flow, and.
If it's survival is based on nutrients alone, why doesn't it just relocate and "fission" away somewhere else?
If I solely replace my bulbs and nothing else, it dies...

I don't know all the answer's... It's just some things just don't make sense..

Those wavelengths are heavily generalized. Cyanobacteria are extremely variable in the types of chlorophyll, carotenoids, phycobilins, and bacteriochlorophylls they contain. As a result, one bacterium can have several optimal ranges. It just varies too much between cyanobacterial species, especially since it seems they grow quite well in a variety of lighting conditions. They have these pigments to allow them to thrive and reproduce in a variety of conditions, allowing them to outcompete everything else in certain circumstances. I just don't think that shifting wavelengths are the major contributor in aquaria. I have allowed bulbs to go for quite some time before changing them and never suffer an outbreak. Allow phosphate to rise or detritus to settle, however, and it appears regardless. Siince most can fix atmospheric nitrogen, nitrate concentrations don't really seem to matter to begin with...

[noskimmer]

well said, however can you address my questions in your response..? As I was quite specific about my points... no?

[Amphiprion]

well said, however can you address my questions in your response..? As I was quite specific about my points... no?

1st point--doesn't seem like you finished what you were trying to say

2nd point--no one ever said its survival was based on nutrients alone. It is simply that, given all the factors present in most aquaria (i.e. sufficient light, gas exchange, etc.), that nutrients are going to be the prime "suspect" in causing its growth.

3rd point--given the changing nutrient cycles in tanks, how can you be certain that is was only the lights? If that happens to be the issue, why does it sprout up in new tanks that have only had their lights for a short period of time?

Now my own points:

1. Just because a test kit doesn't detect nitrate or phosphate in your tank, that doesn't mean that it isn't present in sufficient quantities to grow algae. They are able to sequester the available nutrients, as well, fueling growth and fooling your test kit. Bottom line--if you have enough nuisance algae, there's a nutrient problem somewhere, regardless of what a test says (unless you have one that resolves low enough).

2. I am of the opinion that biological competition is paramount and very important in aquariums--more than what many give it credit for. For example, given two tanks, one packed with thriving and fast growing corals, and the other with just a couple frags, which one is more likely to have the algae problem?

[AquatiCreations]

That is what i Do with my fresh water aquariums but was not sure if corals synthesized the nutrients,in the same way.Especially since some of the corals(like sun coral) Do not have the Algae that carries out processes of photosynthesis.But it could be as others stated,my tank is only about 1 1/2 months old so it is relatively new.,But it was cycled using old materials from another tank of mine... But it definitely is receding.and growth mainly occurs now on bare rocks.And sparse patches on top of the sand.

[Octavarium]

Red Slime Remover as a last resort is an excellent oxidizing powder. I,like many others, hate to use chemicals for anything...but if you tried everything else and it hasn't worked...this product does.

[Amphiprion]

That is what i Do with my fresh water aquariums but was not sure if corals synthesized the nutrients,in the same way.Especially since some of the corals(like sun coral) Do not have the Algae that carries out processes of photosynthesis.But it could be as others stated,my tank is only about 1 1/2 months old so it is relatively new.,But it was cycled using old materials from another tank of mine... But it definitely is receding.and growth mainly occurs now on bare rocks.And sparse patches on top of the sand.


Red Slime Remover as a last resort is an excellent oxidizing powder. I,like many others, hate to use chemicals for anything...but if you tried everything else and it hasn't worked...this product does.

AquatiCreations, it does work somewhat similarly with lots of plants. The rates at which it occurs in reef aquaria will depend upon the corals.

Ocatavarium, it and other strong oxidizers (like KMnO4) work quite well, but I just avoid them like the plague. They are the "I'm going to quit if I don't get rid of this" kind of last resort.

[salty420]

i'll tell ya what... i tried everything to get rid of the red slime in my 29g (i posted a thread about it in reef keeping here (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152261)) - tons of WC's, adding a ton of flow, new bulbs, total blackout - the works. the only thing that worked was chemiclean red slime remover. that stuff works insanely good. and the red slime has not come back at all. it came back with everything else i tried. before every time i got it all out (physically removing it and when i did the black out) it came back. not this time. of course now i have hair algae but i swear that's not near as bad as the red slime!

[fishiness]

i heard chemiclean is good for it, or just an urchin, try to take it out naturally... also I heard you can turkey baste it offa the rocks

[AquatiCreations]

Lol my lil urchin works all day long,he really is great, he grew up from a spec i could barely see to a nice 1-1/2 inches he is today.He does like to mow through algae and does exceptionally well on the areas of rocks he gets to.