View Full Version : baby midas and africans?
can a baby midas cichlid survive in a 75 with some africans?
can a baby midas cichlid survive in a 75 with some africans?
No. Keep them separated. I do not recommend mixing Africans with CA/SA cichlids. Their temperament and other requirements are far different. How big is the Midas cichlid? Keep it in a 55g on its own. Midas can be belligerent.
Lady G
05-25-2008, 3:51 AM
The Midas may survive.... but the Africans may not. Midas get quite a bit bigger then the African cichlids (well most of em anyway) and they are very aggressive..I would not recommend it either. The Midas would most likely take those guys out quickly...even as a baby.:grinyes:
I have a 2 inch Midas in a 125G tank with 14 full grown Mbuna 5-6 inches (african cichlids) a 14 inch Red Devil, 2 Jack Dempseys, a leperinus, a green terror, a 15 inch black shark, a red tail shark, and 3 convicts, and he is just fine. Midas are tough customers, he should be just fine. Some people feel you shouldnt mix CA/SA cichlids with african cichlids, In my personal opinion, this is a very archaic and dated way of thinking and or fishkeeping. Several people on this website myself included have been sucessfully mixing CA/SA and african cichlids for years.
Tongue33
05-25-2008, 4:25 AM
IT can work.. THough The purist in me says don't do it :D
The FACTS are that Central American cichlids actually have very similar requirements compared to allot of African cichlids ;)
terror spawnin
05-25-2008, 4:35 AM
I have a 2 inch Midas in a 125G tank with 14 full grown Mbuna 5-6 inches (african cichlids) a 14 inch Red Devil, 2 Jack Dempseys, a leperinus, a green terror, a 15 inch black shark, a red tail shark, and 3 convicts, and he is just fine. Midas are tough customers, he should be just fine. Some people feel you shouldnt mix CA/SA cichlids with african cichlids, In my personal opinion, this is a very archaic and dated way of thinking and or fishkeeping. Several people on this website myself included have been sucessfully mixing CA/SA and african cichlids for years.
There are few africans that tollerate the lower ph and softer water that sa's thrive in. Most are the malawi's and the western region fish like the jewels. Keeping these fish together seems to work well. Just don't try to add a flowerhorn at any size. Aside from trying to eat what they can fit in their mouth..they seem to kill fish just because they can.
Tongue33
05-25-2008, 5:11 AM
There are few africans that tollerate the lower ph and softer water that sa's thrive in. Most are the malawi's and the western region fish like the jewels. Keeping these fish together seems to work well. Just don't try to add a flowerhorn at any size. Aside from trying to eat what they can fit in their mouth..they seem to kill fish just because they can.
;) Many CA cichlids do not thrive in soft water with lower pH ;) Infact it is the opposite ;)
Rbishop
05-25-2008, 7:56 AM
The mixing of them can be done, but I don't recommend it for begining fish keepers and especially if you do not have additional tanks to hold problem fishies if the issue arises.
The mixing of them can be done, but I don't recommend it for begining fish keepers and especially if you do not have additional tanks to hold problem fishies if the issue arises.
i promise you i am not a beginner. =D i've actually been into fish keeping for quite a while, just i haven't really needed that much help until now. :liar: hahaha. but like ya, i've become quite familiar with the behaviors of my mbuna cichlids, and i think that i can pull it off, but i really just want to know if i'm overstocking my 75gal? because i have heard that midas need lots of room and my africans get pretty territorial...
well, if you're more worried about over stocking than behavioural problems, you'd better tell us exactly what Africans are in the 75 already, together with genders and sizes.
well i currently have:
2 2" blue zebras (not cobalt blue, just regular blue....) - unknown gender
2 3.5-4" snow white socolofi - both females
1 1.5" yellow lab - unknown gender
3 2.5-3" yellow labs - 1m/2f (as far as i can tell)
Rbishop
05-25-2008, 1:15 PM
i promise you i am not a beginner. =D i've actually been into fish keeping for quite a while, just i haven't really needed that much help until now. :liar: hahaha. but like ya, i've become quite familiar with the behaviors of my mbuna cichlids, and i think that i can pull it off, but i really just want to know if i'm overstocking my 75gal? because i have heard that midas need lots of room and my africans get pretty territorial...
I didn't claim you were a beginner. :) Just stating an opposing point of view, so if any newbies are reading this thread, they are aware of possible issues.
The bolded part of your post tends to lead me to believe that this is an experiment. IMO. Due to the size they get and their most common personalities, is why everyone is recommending not to do it.
But it is your tanks and fish. Feel free.
:)
well its not as much an experiment as......well.........alright! lol. 0=) the thing is i kept a pretty good sized oscar with my africans and after adding him to the tank i left the house and when i came back the OSCAR was dead! =O so i tried a JD, but this time i watched them, and he was actually able to cope with my africans for a while, but they got bigger quicker than he did so they ended up beating the crap out of him so i had to put him up for adoption at a petco. So now i'm HOPING that since a midas so so much more badass than either of those americans, it might hold its own against my africans. =/ and i'm sorry. i over reacted about that noobie comment. 0=) and yes: NEW BEGINNERS THAT ARE READING THIS THREAD, DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS!
I wouldn't mix a Midas with Africans myself. I think if you do your labs could be in trouble.
i promise you i am not a beginner. =D i've actually been into fish keeping for quite a while, just i haven't really needed that much help until now. :liar: hahaha. but like ya, i've become quite familiar with the behaviors of my mbuna cichlids, and i think that i can pull it off, but i really just want to know if i'm overstocking my 75gal? because i have heard that midas need lots of room and my africans get pretty territorial...
The mix will work, from experience, your devil/midas might fight with em a little when they are the same size, but he will get so much bigger so fast, when your devil/midas gets to be full size, he wont even bother your africans, its almose like my africans are beneth my devil not worthy of his attention lol Sometimes he will bowl through them to get to food, but other than that he just ignores them. And just for the record, Oscar's are not that tough, africans can kill them, devils/midas cichlids will most definantly kill an oscar, once again Im speaking from experience. If you are really looking for a fish that africans cannot touch, Midas/devils are one, another is a black shark. A black shark will definantly bully africans as they are even more terrotorial and moody than devils.
ALRIGHT! thanks a lot! i'll try it out and keep you posted! =D
Rbishop
05-25-2008, 1:39 PM
:) Yep, let us know.
Here are some pics you might enjoy of a mixed tank, sorry nothing recent, these are all like 6 months old so no convict pics:)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/phoenixsuns000/DSC01153.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/phoenixsuns000/DSC01595.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/phoenixsuns000/DSC01185.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/phoenixsuns000/DSC01184.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/phoenixsuns000/DSC02683.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/phoenixsuns000/DSC01687.jpg
Rbishop
05-25-2008, 1:49 PM
Nice.
Lady G
05-25-2008, 1:50 PM
I would defiantly be sure to have a tank ready for the Midas, as I said...I don't think HE will have a problem, just the opposite in fact....the AFRICANS may. It is your tank and your fish, obviously do what you want. It may work, ya never know, really it will depend on the Midas itself.
Good luck:)
nice pix! are female midas less agressive than males? and they don't have the hump right? is there any way to tell male from female when they are young?
mostlycichlids
05-25-2008, 1:58 PM
If you are worried about stocking you will be ok in the 75g for now. When the Midas becomes mature and full grown it will need a 75g to itself. I personally would not put your Mbuna in harms way of a large SA Cichlid. African cihclids are much more territorial IME than most SA cichlids. They may harass the little guy and cause a lot of stress to him. If he makes it long enough to outgrow the Mbuna you might be ok for a while. I still wouldn't recommend mixing the midas with Mbuna though. I would have a plan to move him if problems arise.
well i'm still going to try it out for a bit and see how it goes, but since most species females are less agressive than their males i wanted to see if i could minimize risk by choosing a female, but i'm not good at sexing fish. =(
well i'm still going to try it out for a bit and see how it goes, but since most species females are less agressive than their males i wanted to see if i could minimize risk by choosing a female, but i'm not good at sexing fish. =(
Id still suggest you go with the male just because I know it works because its what Ive been successfull at, I think you will be pleasently suprised how well it works:)
well is there any definite way of telling male from female at their young age?
how about food relations? my mbunas are mainly vegitarians, and midas are carniverous.....how is that going to work out?
how about food relations? my mbunas are mainly vegitarians, and midas are carniverous.....how is that going to work out?
Well different people will tell you different things. Ill tell you what has worked out for me for years. I feed twice a day once in the morning once at night, Hikari Gold Cichlid Pellets and standard flakes. The africans tend to go for the flakes while the CA/SA prefere the pellets. Once a week I give them frozen brine shrimp as a treat:) If you choose to get any sharks like I do (Black, Red Tail, Or a leperinus) they will pretty mych eat either.
i'm not particularly planning on getting any sharks...i'm not sure my 75 can handle it. what kind of decor do midas like? i have sand substrate and lava for my africans. i am planning on getting a LOT more lava to make caves with so that my mbunas can hide from the midas when it gets bigger....but will this effect the midas in any extreme negative way other than it won't get to snack on my labs? :p
i'm not particularly planning on getting any sharks...i'm not sure my 75 can handle it. what kind of decor do midas like? i have sand substrate and lava for my africans. i am planning on getting a LOT more lava to make caves with so that my mbunas can hide from the midas when it gets bigger....but will this effect the midas in any extreme negative way other than it won't get to snack on my labs? :p
Nope, the sand and lava rocks are great, just keep it all natural and you wont be sorry, the fake stuff looks good sometimes at the store but it really looks bad in a tank lol Anyway you have the right idea, Id just stick with that, no plants, cichlids will just dig them up.
yup. tried plants once: the ones that didn't get dug up go sucked into my filter because the areas around them were dug up and they couldn't root anywhere. xD how much pressure can the bottom of my tank hold? i don't want it cracking away if i apply too much weight..... :'(
AquariumNoob13
05-26-2008, 2:41 AM
i can't answer your weight question too accurately, but as far as i know, tanks are made to sustain lots of weight as long as you evenly distribute it and don't set all your lava in one place....but u might want to get another opinion....and as for the plants, i know what u mean! lol.
mostlycichlids
05-26-2008, 11:32 AM
Id still suggest you go with the male just because I know it works because its what Ive been successfull at, I think you will be pleasently suprised how well it works:) Just because your rediculous mix works for you don't mean it will work for everyone. IMO your tank is grossely overstocked and telling everyone on the board it is ok to mix just about any fish is bad advise. Look what happened to your fonts... http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153506
In this topic you talk about your Mbuna not working out and getting ripped apart by your SA's.
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142310
Not to mention in this thread you talk about "from experience" you dont recommend mixing a Jag with mbuna. Red Devil/Midas are much more aggressive then Jags. http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151164
Point being you are flip flopping on keeping SA cichlids with africans.
A lot of your fish are small as well and when they are full grown you are gonna have major problems in your 125g. Giving advise for possible failure :angryfire:
Nope, the sand and lava rocks are great, just keep it all natural and you wont be sorry, the fake stuff looks good sometimes at the store but it really looks bad in a tank lol Anyway you have the right idea, Id just stick with that, no plants, cichlids will just dig them up. In the original posters 75g when the midas reaches full grown status there isint gonna be much room for any decor as the midas will be cramped.
Lady G
05-26-2008, 11:41 AM
Your Midas (if you get him) will grow rather quickly keep this in mind. I got mine in Nov. Here is what he looked like when I got him and now. As far as aggression, mine has not been to bad, he goes after one of my JDs from time to time...but I have seen him go after the Pacu a couple times too which is WAY bigger then him. As far as feeding I would offer both types of foods at feeding time myself. Why not just get a different tank for the Midas, is what I'm wondering...your going to need a back up plan anyway, incase it doesn't work out..so why not just make him/her their own set up?
mostlycichlids
05-26-2008, 11:46 AM
Your Midas (if you get him) will grow rather quickly keep this in mind. I got mine in Nov. Here is what he looked like when I got him and now. As far as aggression, mine has not been to bad, he goes after one of my JDs from time to time...but I have seen him go after the Pacu a couple times too which is WAY bigger then him. As far as feeding I would offer both types of foods at feeding time myself. Why not just get a different tank for the Midas, is what I'm wondering...your going to need a back up plan anyway, incase it doesn't work out..so why not just make him/her their own set up?
Off the topic but beautiful midas LadyG!
Just because your rediculous mix works for you don't mean it will work for everyone. IMO your tank is grossely overstocked and telling everyone on the board it is ok to mix just about any fish is bad advise. Look what happened to your fonts... http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153506
In this topic you talk about your Mbuna not working out and getting ripped apart by your SA's.
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142310
Not to mention in this thread you talk about "from experience" you dont recommend mixing a Jag with mbuna. Red Devil/Midas are much more aggressive then Jags. http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151164
Point being you are flip flopping on keeping SA cichlids with africans.
A lot of your fish are small as well and when they are full grown you are gonna have major problems in your 125g. Giving advise for possible failure :angryfire:
In the original posters 75g when the midas reaches full grown status there isint gonna be much room for any decor as the midas will be cramped.
To each his own, the mix I have works great, I have 2 friends who also have similar mixes who are also working out great. Dont attack what you dont understand. I never said anything about mbuna getting ripped apart by my SA's, I said my jag was swallowing them. The Jag just ended up being a bad mix, not only was he swallowing them, the black shark was beating the crap out of the jag. That was an old experiment and the jag has not been a part of the community for a long time. As a resuly nowhere in this post did you see me recommend a jag have you. As for Mbuna, you must not know alot about them, it is common practice to overstock them in order to spread out agression. As far as your 1st quote, the Fronts were never included in my 125G community, check your facts. Currently ALL of my fish except the new baby devil are full grown, and I dont have any problems, I can take more pictures if you like to show you how healthy my fish are but then again with people as judgemental as you I wonder if its even worth taking the tme to do it. The Jag was a mistake I have no problem admiting that, but not because he was too agressive it was because he could fit too many other fish in his mouth and because the black shark beat the crap out of him. Anyway, I stand by what ive posted in this topic 100%. If you dont like it too bad.
oh....well i can't have another tank because my parents don't really want me too...... :( and i really appreciate akapaul bringing that up. :) is there any other less agressive fish that will have room but still gets pretty big? i kept a JD once, it was beautiful, it looked just like a jewl cichlid, but so much more interesting in behavior. but it got too big 4 the 10g, so i had to put him up for adoption. :'( if i kept one in my 75g would it be alright as an adult? because JD's are way less agressive than Midas right?
mostlycichlids
05-26-2008, 3:01 PM
To each his own, the mix I have works great, I have 2 friends who also have similar mixes who are also working out great. Dont attack what you dont understand. I never said anything about mbuna getting ripped apart by my SA's, I said my jag was swallowing them. The Jag just ended up being a bad mix, not only was he swallowing them, the black shark was beating the crap out of the jag. That was an old experiment and the jag has not been a part of the community for a long time. As a resuly nowhere in this post did you see me recommend a jag have you. As for Mbuna, you must not know alot about them, it is common practice to overstock them in order to spread out agression. As far as your 1st quote, the Fronts were never included in my 125G community, check your facts. Currently ALL of my fish except the new baby devil are full grown, and I dont have any problems, I can take more pictures if you like to show you how healthy my fish are but then again with people as judgemental as you I wonder if its even worth taking the tme to do it. The Jag was a mistake I have no problem admiting that, but not because he was too agressive it was because he could fit too many other fish in his mouth and because the black shark beat the crap out of him. Anyway, I stand by what ive posted in this topic 100%. If you dont like it too bad. Ok your right...I know nothing about Mbuna. In fact I really don't know much about stocking or fish in general...:confused:
oh....well i can't have another tank because my parents don't really want me too...... :( and i really appreciate akapaul bringing that up. :) is there any other less agressive fish that will have room but still gets pretty big? i kept a JD once, it was beautiful, it looked just like a jewl cichlid, but so much more interesting in behavior. but it got too big 4 the 10g, so i had to put him up for adoption. :'( if i kept one in my 75g would it be alright as an adult? because JD's are way less agressive than Midas right?
What about Firemouths they are colorful and get pretty good sized. I really don't recommend mixing mainly because I think mixed tanks are ugly. If you are going to do it it is your choice. I would go with fish that are similar sized with similar requirements and behave similar. You could try firemouths or Blue Acaras. Blue Acaras are similar color of Jack Dempseys but stay smaller.
the reason i want to mix is because africans stay relatively small and i (this is just my own personal preference here) would like to have a big fish. . . and how much smaller do blue acaras stay? because JD's don't get that big right? only like 9"?
Ok your right...I know nothing about Mbuna. In fact I really don't know much about stocking or fish in general...:confused:
you're joking right??? :confused:
Lady G
05-26-2008, 4:23 PM
Off the topic but beautiful midas LadyG!
Thanks!!! Really I was just trying to show him they do not stay babies long.
you're joking right??? :confused:
Yes, he was joking.
ok! ty. =D i was a little worried. 0=)
Lady G
05-26-2008, 9:40 PM
ok! ty. =D i was a little worried. 0=)
LOL, to be honest...Paul is one of the people I would trust more then about anyone when it comes to Cichlids. Obviously there are other people who are very qualified to give advice and I trust, he is just very high up there on the list for me personally. :grinyes:
AquariumNoob13
05-26-2008, 11:35 PM
really? i might ask him for sum help with my problems then. xD