Do you think Cichlids will work for me?

[myswtsins]

Hello. I have a 35 hex FW community right now and I do not seem to be having a lot of luck adding new fish. I think it is due to my natural water chemistry being too different for them even when dripped into the tank. Here is what I have....

Ph - 8.2
Ammonia - 0
Nirites - 0
Nitrates - 10
Total Hardness - 25 ppm
Kh - 13 dKH

Water parameters are good for Cichlids right? African Cichlids in particular. My concern is that I read that 50% people say Cichlids are easy & 50% say they are for advanced fish keepers only. The most difficult part of keeping Cichlids is consistent correct water parameters & understanding their behavior??? If that is truly the case, as I have read, I think I can handle it. No matter what I do my water parameters DO NOT change, trust me I have tried, and I research every fish I get extensively before purchasing. I happen to love the rock look too so that is just a perk for me! =)

My fear is that I have not had a lot of luck with the "netural" fish (likes ph 7.0, med. hardness etc) & plants (I have another post about that going right now) & I do not want to endanger ANY fish! No LFS can not see any reason as to why the new fish die except that my Ph is too high and that is why I am now trying to find fish to match my water instead of water to match my fish.

Ideally I was looking for a 50+ gal tank but I was just given a 36 gal bowfront, would this be ok for a few of the smaller species? Smaller species of different colors and genus of course (to try to keep aggression down), if there are any? :grinyes: I haven't researched each specie yet as to not get too excited! Thanks for looking!!

[thesoul2008]

i have a cichlid tank and they are VERY sterdy fish and VERY easy to look after (well mine are) as long as you set your tank up right and give them PLENTY of hiding spots have a look through my pictures for a look at the tank (its the one with all the rocks lol) there is 4 male peacocks 2 female peacocks well i think one is an OB actually

or there is some older pics here http://guypepper.synthasite.com/New_Fish_Tank_55G.php

[Lupin]

For those tank size and water parameters, stick with Lake Tanganyikan shell dwellers such as the Neolamprologus ocellatus.

[Coler]

^ I agree. It is too tight to consider anything from Lake Malawi. Shell dwellers would be ideal.

[myswtsins]

Thank you for your input everyone!


Yes, shell dwellers seem to be the only ones I saw that seemed plausible for my current tank.

[Brian Bivens]

You could also do a Neolamprologus species tank, a breeding pair of brichardi would be nice, and they are a little bigger than the shellies.

[edmlfc]

I love the shell dwellers but my ph never gets high enough to keep them. I think they would do great in your tank.

[AquariumNoob13]

breeding convicts

[myswtsins]

I do like the Neolamprologus genus more then the shell dwellers. I would really like to have 1 or 2 center piece fish and then some smaller fish, maybe a small school. I finally got my mother interested in fish when I showed her the beautiful colored Cichlids so that is what I wanna aim for. Scientific names are a whole new thing for me so researching has been fun. =)

[myswtsins]

Opps, I ment I like the rockdwelling Neolamprologus more than the shelldwellers. Is there a way to edit posts?

[Brian Bivens]

For color within the Neolamprologus genus, you could go with Daffodil (brichardi with yellowish fins), or Gracilis (blue fins, white edges) however the problem is, they don't really allow for a centerpiece fish... if and when they breed, they kind of attack anything else that enters their territory.

[AquariumNoob13]

if u are willing to upgrade your tank size, u can get a midas.

[Coler]

Water parameters are good for Cichlids right? African Cichlids in particular. ...I happen to love the rock look too so that is just a perk for me! =)



:)

[Lupin]

Opps, I ment I like the rockdwelling Neolamprologus more than the shelldwellers. Is there a way to edit posts?
20 minutes only from the time it was posted. PM a moderator for any revisions.:)

[myswtsins]

Thanks everyone, your input has been quite helpful. I really like the Neolamprologus pulcher "daffodil" but it seems I will not be able to put other fish with them. =(

I would be fine with a species tank too but could I have more than just a pair in a tank my size? I'm thinking no. =)

It is looking like I will not be able to do what I want (colorful center peice fish with other fish) with my current situation (tank size, water parameters etc.). Maybe I will start another thread to find ideas for this 36 gal tank and just wait till I upgrade my tank to do the beautiful Cichlids. :read:

Oh if only I had 10 gals more, then I could aspire to have a tank like Coler! =) I really love your tank, it is ideal!

[Brian Bivens]

with the Daffodils, the easiest way to do it, is to buy 5 or 6 of them, and wait for the breeding group to pair off, it may be one male with three femalse in different parts of the tank, or just 1 male, 1 female, you never know with them, as they pick the mate, not you....

There is one other option, but you won't get too much variety there either... (maybe more color...

you could do three or four Melanochromis Johanni's. They are beautiful black and blue cichlids, like the rock work, and are smaller and less aggressive than other melanochromis species, and from my experience most of the other colorful malawi cichlids. Then as a centerpiece, one yellow lab.

Some might say this is pushing it in your tank, but I think they would do fine.

This would give you the color you're after and if you provide some plants, and enough rocks, you most likely would be able to keep the peace.

Coler, you could probably speak on this better, and may even shoot the idea down, but these are the smaller species as far as I know, and in my tank, the Johanni's are subordinate to the yellow labs.

[myswtsins]

Great ideas Brian! It lead me to a great site of fish profiles, fishprofiles.com =), and I am finding a lot more types of fish and options so I will probably come back with a scenario for approval in a little while! =)

[Brian Bivens]

Perfect. For nearly 6 months I kept cichlids in a 44 gallon pentagon tank. So like yours, there wasn't an awful lot of floor space, but it was a nice tank, and there was less agression when they were in the 44, then there is now in my 75!

[myswtsins]

OK, I got an idea or two now.....

1 Centerpiece - Labidochromis caeruleus, Copadichromis borleyi OR Pseudotropheus acei (I really like the yellow labs)

2-3 Lodotropheus Sprengerae (Supposably they come in different colors, maybe mix it up)

And a few of something smaller, maybe Etroplus Maculatus. If I go with the yellow lab centerpiece though I will want no other major yellow fish in the tank.

All peaceful fish so the size restriction should not be as much of an issue because there should not be much or any aggression. I hope my research pays off! =)
Just to clarify these guys would be going into the new 36 bowfront not the 35 Hex.

BTW can I put my female bristlenose pleco is this tank??

[Coler]

Hmmmm...how long is the tank ?

[myswtsins]

It is 31L x 15w x 21h. *crosses fingers*

[Coler]

I was digging around a bit for some info. I've never kept Etroplus Maculatus but here is a load of info from a reputable source http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebindex/chromidefaqs.htm and it seems they do better in brackish conditions. I couldn't find anything that says they would be good tankmates for mbuna.

Any chance of stretching it to a 40G long tank ?
The tank is a leeeeeeetle short of length for mbuna; generally 3 feet is regarded as minimum and 4 is far better. I guess you could give it a shot with some juvenile labs/rusties/acei and see how you do. Even though these are amongst the least aggressive mbuna they still come tooled up with plenty of rift lake 'personality'...i.e. mentalness. I don't think you could be confident of keeping a population in that size tank for the long term.

edit : ok I could find nothing that would reccommend mbuna in that size tank, and in fairness I believe this is because the tank is just too tight to get enough fish in there so as to manage aggression...so just bear in mind that it would be very experimental...

...if I was going to try myself, and I probably wouldn't...I would go for 1 lab, 3 rusties (1 male 2 females) and an acei (all juveniles) and just see how it went for a while. At worst you could grow them out a bit in it...and this would really be in the nature of an experiment...also have a Plan B (bigger tank or return by agreement with LFS)...I just don't don't think it would work though...

[myswtsins]

Well as much as I want the setup I would not want to force it to work. So I will wait till I get a bigger tank to do a Cichlid setup. I will leave any experiments like this to more experienced fish keepers. =) Now I just have to find other fish that may like my water conditions, back to the drawing board! (thinking about mollies)

Thank you so much everyone for all your help!! I truly appreciate everyone sticking with me on this.

[Coler]

How about another tanganyika tank, but you could have some other options than the 30 Hex :

I thought this tank worked out very well (centrepiece is a calvus...or perhaps a compressiceps, I can't remember) :

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131457

More ideas http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144370&highlight=tanganyikan+tank

more ideas http://www.cichlidforum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_29g.php

Here is a calvus (very cool fish) http://www.cichlidforum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1578

and here is a compressiceps http://www.cichlidforum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1583 equally cool...slower growing I think so better for the smaller tank.

[Brian Bivens]

Wow, I went through and looked at that thread, and the tank was really nice. I would consider this if my wife wouldn't kill me!

[myswtsins]

Thanks for the suggestions but I am really looking to do something with substantial rock work. Is there any reason I can not have more rockwork than the stated tank as long as there is still plenty of floor space?

[Brian Bivens]

Well, if you do any shell dwellers you would need to make sure there is an open area for the shells. You could to two rock formations (one on each sid eof the tank, kind of built up towards the corners, then an open area in the center with shells and open space for the little fellas.

Again, you could do a very rocky tank with the Daffodil, and I still think you could do 4 Electric Blue Johanni's, but that is just my opinion.

[ibr3ak]

I wouldn't recommend johanni's for a tank that's not even 3 feet long, even though the profile might say they are the least aggressive of the melanocromis species, they are still more aggressive than most mbuna and especially to each other, so a 31" long tank for a group of 4 and other small fish would be very tight.

[Brian Bivens]

I kept 4 in a 44 gallon 28" x 28" corner tank with other fish for six months without issue, no injuries, no major fighting, no water quality issues.

[ibr3ak]

What worked for you might not necessarily work for others, there's no staple when dealing with aggressive unpredictable fish, especially when they are adult and in small confines.

[Mij]

Kribs, there from eastern Africa and found in streams. They also stay a smaller size.

[myswtsins]

Thanks for the suggestion but the Daffodil is from Tanganyika & the Johanni is from Malawi, I thought it was bad to mix? From what I read they are both very aggressive too so as much as I would LOVE that setup I wouldn't wanna try that in my small tank.

That was what I was thinking w/rocks in corners with open space in middle. I actually saw a tank setup like that somewhere on here but I can not find it again. Maybe a Calvus for the centerpiece (I really like the white ones), 1 Variabilochromis moorii (hard to find much info on them though), maybe 1 Chalinochromis sp. "ndobnoi" and a few shellies, would multis be too small with the clavus? If so maybe some occies or brevis. Even if I am not coming up with good arrangements I am learning a LOT!! =)

If I were to put all the shells in the middle what would be the best combo of shellies? Since they will all be together would it be better to get different kinds to avoid pairing off?

[myswtsins]

A female Krib could be nice too (thanks for the suggestion), maybe instead of the Variabilochromis moorii since they seem to be harder to find.

I really wish I could find that tank I was refering to! They said something about it being an unusual setup, so frustrating when you can't find what you want. =)

[myswtsins]

Went to Walmart today and I always have to look at the poor fish there, I have rescued a few Bettas there, (a beautiful Oscar didn't make it, broke my heart) but they had assorted African Cichlids for $5.86. There were juvenile Yellow labs, Iodotropheus Sprengerae, what looked like small yellow & black julies and a few other species, oh so pretty! I know I can't have them but now I am super excited to know if I can keep my new scenerio??

Also I would really like to have some Neolamprologus caudopunctatus shellies in there if that would work. I want to get Black 3m colorquartz S-grade, I will go with fake plants to start, I have the slate I want to use already and a Ehiem 2213 currently running, cycled and ready to hook up to the new 36 bowfront. I have a few seashells ranging from 1 1/4" to 3 1/2" (measuring the largest length) would any of these be acceptable for the shellies? Can anyone direct me to a good guide on shelldwellers?

[myswtsins]

I would also possibly be interested in doing a small school of Cyprichromis Leptosoma with a few multis, maybe 1 midlevel fish (Variabilochromis moorii or Chalinochromis sp. "ndobnoi"). But once again I think the tank may be a bit too short for schooling fish??? I do plan on upgrading the tank in the somewhat near future, how fast do these guys grow?

I apologize for all the questions. =) I just really wanna do this and do it responsibly.

[Pittbull]

hello buddy hey i would do a group of 5 neolamp brichardis a group of neolamp brevis or neolamp multifasciatus in that setup, i wouldnt recommend the cyps leptosoma they get really flighty and if you dont have a secure lid you will find them dried up on the floor plus they are really nervous fish that cost a decent penny, calvus are really good fish eaters when they attain their full size and if you dont want to go with the shellies then i would go with a Neolamp lelupi or the yellow neolamp mustax to give you a bit of color, i am getting ready to post all of my fish here soon been away to long and finally i am back even my avatar is out of date i used to be into the amazon cichlids for a bit, hope this helps..

[myswtsins]

Thank you for your response pittbull and sorry for my delay but I have been weighing the options and I have decided to hold off on the Cichlids till I get a bigger tank. I want the fish and myself to be happy so I will just wait. Thank you everyone! I have learned a lot and you can bet I will be saving all this info.

[Pittbull]

thats always a cool ideal as well nothing wrong by sitting back and waiting, later buddy..