I'm getting a 30gal. tank...

[GoLdFiSh_GrL]

besides my 200gal. and was wondering about how many fish I cud put in there? Lyk, fantails & orandas & stuff. i no i cant fit an oscar in there.... it has 2 B @ least a 50gal. 4 1 oscar. wut kinds of fish can i put in with goldfish that'll live 2gether peacefully? 4 example: guppies, mollies, flounders, tetras, etc.?

[ChilDawg]

One goldfish max for a 30 gal.

You can't put any of the usual suspects in with goldies due to the differences in temps necessary. White Clouds might be okay but I'd love to let someone check that before you take me at my word on this one.

[GoLdFiSh_GrL]

i cant put any cichlids in there, right? because if I can put in a cichlid, i won't put in goldies :D

[ChilDawg]

There are quite a few cichlids that may be put in a 30g tank, but you'll want to get your goldfish into adequate housing prior to turning the 30 into a cichlid tank.

[ChilDawg]

A common misconception by new hobbyists is that cichlids are limited to the large ones, but there are many nice, small ones available as well.

[GoLdFiSh_GrL]

yup. like the African Butterfly cichlid its cute :)

[GoLdFiSh_GrL]

even though i REALLY wanted to put at least 1 oscar in there... or a Blue Acara or a Midas Cichlid...:(

[ChilDawg]

For a 30, I like one of the smaller C/A Cichlids:

Convict
Neet (Neetroplus nematopus)
Rainbow (Heterotilapia multispinosa)
Jade-Eye (Archocentros spilurum)

[ChilDawg]

Nope, too large on those three...and the ABC is better-suited to more-acidic conditions.

[ChilDawg]

I'd move Treasure to this tank, though, as she needs more room than a 10 gal can provide.

[GoLdFiSh_GrL]

yea... but someone told me it's each inch the fish is is 1 gallon? like, for example, an Oscar, which can grow to be 12in., wouldn't it need at least a 15gal.?

[ChilDawg]

Not really. Throw that rule out the window, as you have fish that are too deep-bodied to be counted the same as skinny Neon Tetras.

They need at least enough room to turn around...Os and Goldies will eventually become unable to turn around in such small quarters...

[GoLdFiSh_GrL]

what's the minimum (in your opinion) for a Red Oscar? :confused:

[ChilDawg]

Minimum, 75 gallons, but you can taper that down a little bit for a larger tank and more than one...50-60/Oscar in larger tanks but a 75 is the smallest tank that I'd use for one.

[GoLdFiSh_GrL]

aw... is there such thing as a non-aggressive Oscar? my friend told me about them...

[ChilDawg]

It's not aggression that you have to worry about so much as the deterioration of water quality...if they reach 12", they'll do a lot of waste excreting, and larger tanks stave off water changes.

There are some territoriality issues...especially if you have four in a 200 and two pair off...

I can't think of any strains of Os that are less aggressive than any others.

[GoLdFiSh_GrL]

Oooh.... ok. i love my oscars! ;)

[Andy16]

If you want africans, you could probably have yellow labs, shellies, dwarf julidochromis like a transcriptus, kribs i think are african too. If you wanted something with a lot of personality i would go with the shellies. I have a 20 gallon tnak that i am going to put a dwarf pike cichlid in, crenicichla compressiceps. You could also get a pair of firemouths. A 30 will would be too small for an oscar or a midas. Both need a minumum of 55 gallons, but 75 is what they should be in if you can get bigger then a 55.

[GoLdFiSh_GrL]

well... ok. I dont want unhappy Oscars. I love my oscar in my 200gal. named Oscar. Lol! He's 1 of my Red Oscars... :D what do firemouths look like? Or, does anyone know where I can buy a 50-75gal. for a resonable price?:confused:

[ChilDawg]

(Her water is too hard for Crenichla spp.)

[Andy16]

Here is what firemouths look like http://www.aquariacentral.com/species/db.cgi?db=fresh&uid=default&ID=0348&view_records=1


There scientific name is cichlasoma meeki, search for that at www.google.com

[ChilDawg]

While Cichlasoma meeki will give more results, the correct name is Thorichthys meeki.

[Andy16]

I knew it was different but that is what the AC profile says. I wasnt sure of the other name too.

[GoLdFiSh_GrL]

how do i lower my water hardness? :confused:

[blitzen25bm]

you can lower it using reverse osmosis of some of that bottleed water at the store is it distilled? i forget but someone here would know. wont adding peat work? I would get some rams if i were you. i am setting up 29 for them right now. -john

[blitzen25bm]

oh you said you needed cheap tanks where do you live. I would also check the classifieds in the paper every morning there is always good deals if you wait long enough. If you dont want to buy the paper they should have a website. -john

[ChilDawg]

Originally posted by GoLdFiSh_GrL
how do i lower my water hardness? :confused:

Already answered in another thread elsewhere.

[stripes556]

Previous commentors are correct about the 30G being small for goldfish--my pair grew from 2 inches to 8 plus inches in 2 years, and really deserve a larger tank, but due to lease conditions can't get one unless I move. So we change the filter media 2X-3X/week, 50% water change a week, and have lots of live plants to support water quality; and when spot really gets feisty, she knocks the tank so hard it rocks and knocks scales off herself.

But just on the compatibility question: weather or dojo loaches are very cold-hardy and large enough (8 inches or so when grown) to handle themselves around full grown goldfish. White clouds are cold-hardy but small enough to be lunch as the goldfish get bigger (that happened to one I housed with the goldfish when they were much smaller....he did ok until they got to be about 4 inches long then was lunch one day).

If you keep your tank mid-70s or so, which is supposed to be good for delicate fancies, you have more options but the tankmates must be large enough to hold their own, very fast, or just lucky. My tank stays about 76-82 degrees (no heater, just lots of lights for plants), and I've temporarily put a few warm-water tropical fish in with them; the only ones who have been stuck there for more than a few weeks, and looked like they were thriving, are the original white cloud (at least for the six months or so before he was eaten) and a peacock gudgeon, who has been exiled there for about 4 months now, and is small enough to hide in notches in the driftwood.

[blitzen25bm]

if you had a big tank those hi fin sharks are cool i want some for my pond but they are pretty expensive if you want a nice sized one.

[ChilDawg]

Hi-fin banded sharks are huge and need cool water! I wouldn't recommend such a big-bodied CW fish for anything less than a 300g!

[GoLdFiSh_GrL]

dont worry.... i dont want sharks. lol! Do you think... if I get a 55gal. instead (i saw 1 at a great price at my lfs) i can put a Midas cichlid, a Green Terror cichlid, a Fantail goldfish and an oranda together in the same tank?

[ChilDawg]

NO!!!

The Cichlids are tropical and goldies aren't.

The Cichlids are territorial enough to kill the Goldies.

Fantails may have better feeding responses than Orandas and they'll probably not let the Oranda get a chance to eat.

Only one of those Cichlids (the GT) could be considered to be appropos for a long-term stay in that tank...and that's without the other three and probably without any other fish in there with it.

[GoLdFiSh_GrL]

i decided to put in a Blue Acara, some fantails, some Red Ryukins, and some Gouramis. (as said in the Cichlids forum) can i put a Blue Acara in w/ some goldies and gouramis? i changed my mind on the Midas and GT because I want all omnivores in the tank...

[ChilDawg]

No, this won't work either.

Very little will go in with goldies as they are CW fish and most of the other fishes in the hobby are tropicals.

[blitzen25bm]

yea hes right, you need warm water for cichlids. basically if you want goldfish the only thing you can keep in there are goldfish, and you shouldn't mix the fancy fat kinds with normal goldfish either.

[GoLdFiSh_GrL]

why cant you put regular golds w/ the fancy ones?:confused: well... you can put sunfish in w/ goldies... that's a coldwater fish... man! maybe I won't even put goldies in there since i wanted a community tank w/ at least 1 cichlid. A tank w/ out a cichlid is like a cake w/ out icing. :( :D

[ChilDawg]

Originally posted by GoLdFiSh_GrL
why cant you put regular golds w/ the fancy ones?

Ive said it before, and I'll say it again: the fancies can't feed as efficiently because of those extra or missing body parts that the regular varieties (shubunkin, comet, common) don't have against them.

[Sum-X]

wow this is illiteracy at it's finest... :rolleyes:

[GoLdFiSh_GrL]

GOD! just because i'm a newbie at this doesn't mean you can insult my questions!!!! :mad:

[blitzen25bm]

im not trying to insult you here but you should go get a book. i mean even on stuff i think i know everything about it helps to get a couple good books and if you need answers you can always go to them without having to wait for someone to answer. i picked up a couple used goldfish books on ebay for like 4 bucks each.

and sometimes it seems like you aren't even reading our replys which is why people are probably getting annoyed or start making fun of you. you asked about the fancy Vs. regular atleast twice and you asked about lowering the hardness of your water a couple times and this whole cichild thing. people are replying and then you just ask the question again a few days later.

if you have a question you can PM me if you want and i will try to get back to you as soon as i can.

[GoLdFiSh_GrL]

sorry... :( It's just that sometimes the people who DO answer my questions don't exactly give me what I want to hear, so i ask it again in case other people see it, or sometimes if I ask it again a few days later I forget that I asked it and accidentally ask it again...

[Dapple2]

Sometimes the answer you want to hear isn't the right one....

As an additional resource, your friendly public library generally has a good selection of fish books (a little dated perhaps in the technology side) and even if they don't, you can get books through interlibrary loan. Then you get the benefit of the knowledge, but have more $$$ to spend on fish ;) :D

[GoLdFiSh_GrL]

thanx for the advice! I have to go now... bye! :D