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goroboy
06-21-2008, 10:19 PM
Hi,

My aquarium has been running for about a year now. It's a small, humble tank of which I take pride since it's my first salt-water project.

I have succesfully kept 2 Yellowtail Blue Damsels, 1 Coral Banded Shrimp and 1 Sunflower Coral (I used to have two till my chocolate chip starfish ate one of them, which gave it a ticket right out of my tank).

I have always fancied having clownfish, but until now I had made several unsuccesful attempts to increase the population of my tank. It was always the same: I'd come home from the store, I'd acclimate the fish and then would introduce it to the tank (I know this is not the orthodox procedure but I cannot afford to keep a quarantine tank running all the time...besides my main tank is probably the size of any of your quarantine tanks). And I'd always get the same sad result: next morning I'd find them invariably dead.

I had always gotten to the conclusion that it must be because of my water quality. Notwithstanding that the levels I got from my measures were always right I thought there must be something wrong with my water. Also they had told me that damselfish can survive in almost any kind of water, so it was no wonder they survived in mine.

Last wednesday I went to the store to buy replacement cartridges for my filter and a new air stone for the skimmer when I saw it: a beautiful, medium-sized brown clownfish with yellow body bars. I thought it was about the time I repeat my attempt to introduce new fish to the tank. I had measured the water levels earlier that week and everything was perfect. So I bought it, together with a curious looking scooter blennie.

I repeated the same introduction proces and let the new fish swim freely about the tank. I gazed at them for some minutes and then parted to do some chores. Not before long my family, who were curious about my new aquisitions, called me back into the room. The two damsels were ferociously attacking my poor clown!!! Quikly I took the net, catched it and placed it into a bucket. Then I bought a transparent breeder and placed it in the tank with the clownfish inside to protect them from the damsels.

It has been 3 days since, and the damsels don't attack the breeder. But they look at it with resentment and keep swiming around it. I want to introduce the clown to the tank, because I can't keep it in the breeder forever, but I don't know how to do it so the damsels don't attack it.

I was thinking about buying a second clownfish, have them both in the breeder for a few days, let them bond and them release them into the aquarium. After all, two makes a better deffense than one.

Also somebody suggested I put the attackers in the breeder and let the new fish get to know the tank and its hidding places before realeasing them back in, but they have proven imposible to catch - too fast and they know the tank too well.

So I guess all my failed attempts to introduce new fish weren't because of poor water quality but because territorial, agressive tenants.

As for the blennie, nobody but the shrimp payed any attention to it. The shrimp tried to catch it as a prey, but the blennie stood up to him and now the shrimp doesn't come even close. It swims about the tank freely eating any detritus he can find on the floor.

So, after all my meguillah what I need help with is the following:

1. Advise about how to release the clownfish back into the tank without risk.
2. Help identifying its species. (see the pics below). At the store they told me it was something like a 'Brown' Clownfish, but there's no such species in my Marine Fishes book. I'm guessing its a variation of the Amphiprion percula but I don't know for sure. Any ideas?

Thanks!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2055/2598736725_f571bce020_m.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3060/2598736263_d05c2118d6_m.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3071/2599567306_98ae66346c_m.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3006/2598735461_a4819c1d01_m.jpg

SpockthePuffer
06-21-2008, 10:24 PM
Well, first of all damsels and clowns don't do well together, especially in a small tank so you will need to choose one the other. They are from the same family and they will end up fighting eachother. The maroon clown you bought is also one of the more aggressive clowns.

As far as the scooter blenny is concerned, they actually eat pods and many end up starving because of insufficient food source. Have you seen it eat prepared foods? I would make sure it is eating because many are bought already emaciated.

archer772
06-21-2008, 10:26 PM
Its a Gold Stripe Maroon and they are the largest of the clowns I believe and the meanest also. What size tank do you have because the maroons need a 4 foot tank IMO and when they get larger they will make short work of your damsels once again IMO

Amphiprion
06-21-2008, 11:50 PM
There are several things you can try, but IME, the damsels will be a recurring problem, especially with a relatively small clown. I agree with archer, it is a maroon clownfish, Premnas biaculeatus, the largest and typically most aggressive clownfish species. I also agree that under normal circumstances, it could hold its own. However, being the new "kid" on the block is always going to be an issue. Once established it would be fine, but for now, it will be difficult. You can try shifting the rockwork around in a dramatically different arrangement; use a breeder net or tank divider, etc. There are many things to try, just no way of knowing if it will do the trick. If all else fails, get rid of the damsels.

goroboy
06-22-2008, 4:24 AM
Thank you all for all your input. It has been of great help. Some doubts arise though.

About the blennie:

I've seen it pick at the algae and eat detritus from the sand. There is a population of pods in my tank, but how can I tell if it's enough? what can I do if it's not?

About the Clownfish:

I had no idea it was so agressive. It seemed very docile and submissive with the damsels. Also it looks very playfull, swiming in a very peculiar manner. Any special requirements that this fish might have? Should I buy it a mate?

archer772
06-22-2008, 4:48 AM
My opinion on the blennie would be about 60lbs of LR in a well established tank of about 50-60 gallons as a minimum and that would be for the clown also but thats just my opinion. Sometimes it can be difficult putting 2 GSM's in a tank and it should be a very minium of a 4 foot 55 gallon tank IMO and they should be added at the same time with both being very small or one larger one and one smaller one IMO

goroboy
06-22-2008, 10:32 AM
So what are my oprions here? wha kind of tankmates can I get for my damsels? Am I stuck with just the shrimp?

Amphiprion
06-22-2008, 11:27 AM
Well, aggression is going to be higher between damsels (clownfish are damsels as well), so it isn't all that surprising. You may have to do away with the damsels or stick with moderately aggressive or larger fish. You are limited on the latter, however, by the size of your tank.

SpockthePuffer
06-22-2008, 11:53 AM
If I was you, I would get rid of the damsels. That's what I ended up doing in my tank, as they get older they get even more aggressive and will attack anything, even bigger aggressive fish.

From what I've read from people with experience with scooter blennies, they need at least a 60 gallon, very mature, tank. One fish can wipe out a pod population in a short time. Do you have a fuge where you can raise the pods? Thats what most people do who have draggonettes I think. Or you can buy pods but that is a lot of $$

Catpicklesdog
06-22-2008, 12:41 PM
I agree with the others - if you want to keep the damsels you're stuck. Am I right in thinking this is your 15 (U.S)gal tank? If so I definately wouldn't recommend a gold striped maroon in there as they do get quite large. Mine is aggressive but certainly not the boss, that job goes to my yellow tang (who even beats up my trigger fish!!).

I also wouldn't recommend a Scooter (and they're dragonets not blennies) due to the live food they require, although they are easier to feed than Mandarin dragonets (apparently).

goroboy
06-22-2008, 3:10 PM
So tu sum up, y'all reccomend not to keep the GSM nor the Scooter Dragonet because of the size of my tank and the inability to provide live prey for the scooter.
My tank is indeed 15 us gal. So what are my options regarding new inhabitants? which kinds of fish CAN I keep? (besides my damsels)
thx ;)

Amphiprion
06-22-2008, 3:32 PM
Plenty out there. Ones off the top of my head include smaller watchman gobies (i.e. yellow), smaller herbivorous blennies, small cardinalfish (banggai, small pajamas), smaller clownfish species (A. ocellaris, A. percula), small wrasses, etc.

Catpicklesdog
06-22-2008, 3:49 PM
I think it also depends on whether or not you really want to keep the damsels;)

Amphiprion
06-22-2008, 4:05 PM
I think it also depends on whether or not you really want to keep the damsels;)

Right. My recommendations were, more or less, on the condition that the tank is sans damsels.

goroboy
06-22-2008, 5:30 PM
right...I hope that at the store they take the GSM and the scooter back...also I don't know what I'm going to do with my demoiselles...

journey0820
06-22-2008, 5:30 PM
Another 2 cents: Take all fish to LFS for store credit. Start selecting fish from scratch that will be compatible. For example, get a bottom dweller like a goby (small kind) and a clown (preferably a tank raised smaller type) and introduce them at the same time (decreases territory issues -plus they inhabit different regions of the tank so that also decreases aggression. I have a yellow watchman goby who chills at the bottom, a percula clown who swims all over, and a cherub angel who hugs the rock face. Finding fish that live in different "zones" helps.

goroboy
06-22-2008, 11:11 PM
uhhh good advice...i'll see what i can do about the store credit...thx thx

Catpicklesdog
06-23-2008, 3:11 AM
Let us know how you get on:)

goroboy
06-23-2008, 10:18 AM
...I have a yellow watchman goby who chills at the bottom, a percula clown who swims all over, and a cherub angel who hugs the rock face. Finding fish that live in different "zones" helps.

Would you recomend a Cherub Angel for me? Any kind of angel? I looked it up and it's completely gorgeous!
Also, any goby is alright? are there some easier species?
The clown is deffinitely happening...
I'm going down to the store today so I wanna know what to look for ;)

goroboy
06-25-2008, 9:01 PM
Well, yesterday I went to the store but they were out of fish and said they'd have a delivery today. So I left them my fish (all my fish, including the damsels)(to spare them the oddyssey of having to go back to the house and forth again) and returned today. In exchange I got:
1 Tomato Clownfish
2 A. Ocellaris
1 Yellow Angelfish
1 'copperlegs' hermit crab

Let me hear your feedback on those.

Also, my brother and I wish to buy a bigger tank cuz we hate all the limitations of our actual tank. We were thinking something around the 200-300 litres (50-80 gal), but we want to do it right. Any ideas, suggestions, commentaries?

Thx!

Thx!

Amphiprion
06-25-2008, 9:15 PM
You shouldn't mix species of clownfish in a tank that small, especially a pair versus an individual. You'll need to pick a species and stick with it. What kind of yellow angelfish? Most of the yellow species are larger ones...

goroboy
06-26-2008, 4:44 PM
yeah...the tomato killed the ocellaris already but thx for telling me...this is the smallest species of yellow angel, I think it's called yellow pigmey.

7faces
06-26-2008, 6:53 PM
Man, that drives me nuts...why wouldnt a LFS tell you that before you bought it?..
dont they realize, after enough bad expieriences, people will go elsewhere...Grrrr!
I can see them letting someone with corals get an angle or something, just because you never know whether the angel will actually eat corals, or you dont know what corals the customer has... but two diferent species of clown in a tank that small...they "knew" what would happen!.. I'd find a new LFS!

Amphiprion
06-26-2008, 7:20 PM
yeah...the tomato killed the ocellaris already but thx for telling me...this is the smallest species of yellow angel, I think it's called yellow pigmey.

There are dwarf angels that are yellow, but they still get too large for that tank (~5" or so). You preferably want smaller species than that.

goroboy
06-28-2008, 10:07 PM
Man, that drives me nuts...why wouldnt a LFS tell you that before you bought it?..
dont they realize, after enough bad expieriences, people will go elsewhere...Grrrr!
I can see them letting someone with corals get an angle or something, just because you never know whether the angel will actually eat corals, or you dont know what corals the customer has... but two diferent species of clown in a tank that small...they "knew" what would happen!.. I'd find a new LFS!

Yeah, it drives me mad too, but this happens with every LFS I've been to, it seems like they'd tell you anything in order to sell. I remember specifically asking if the two species of clownfish would get along and they told me they would, almost like a loving family.
Anyway, the tomato is now the master and commander of the tank, the angelfish seems to be very shy and only comes out a few seconds at a time to pick at some rock.

How many times a day do I have to feed the tomato? He seems like a hungy fish. I've been feeding him 3 times a day and he eats every single piece of food I give him, even looking on the floor if anything fell. I've also given him brine shrimp, but he doesn't seem to care much for it: he'll eat one or two and let the polyps deal with the rest. Of course the angelfish doesn't even bother.

Amphiprion
06-28-2008, 10:27 PM
I wouldn't worry about feeding the clownfish more than once or twice per day, maximum.