10g Tank Plan - I need your help

[Deathwish238]

I want to set up a 10g aquarium. Originally I wanted saltwater, but freshwater is much cheaper and I'm on a budget.


I already have a 10g AGA, a hood with what looks like incandescent lighting, a filter of some sort, a few filters, a heater, and blue gravel. I bought it used off of craigslist. I can get more info if needed. Any other basics I need? I know I need dechlor...


Here's my plan:

Livestock:
1 Twin Tail Betta
8 Neon Tetras
10 Ghost Shrimp
1 Red Cherry Shrimp
1 Red Crystal Shrimp
1 Olive Nertiva Snail
1 Clam

Plants:
???


Substrate:
Ecocomplete

Would two snails be better?
Any pros/cons associated with clams?

What filter is recommeded for a 10g?
Is it possible to get away without a filter and rely on plants/inverts instead?

Which substrate is best? Ecocomplete seems to be commonly used, but I'm not sure what to go with.

I have no idea what plants I want. Do Bettas and/or Neons prefer some plants in particular? I like the Anacharis, Cabomba, Anubias hastifolia, and Dwarf Sagittari as well. My problem is, I do not want to spend lots of $$$ on lighting. Lighting gets expensive quickly and I don't want to have to invest in T5s or Halites. I'm hoping I throw some flourescent bulbs in the hood I have...but I may be dreaming.


Last question, I know with saltwater tanks having a sump or refugium is benefical...does this hold true for freshwater as well? I'm thinking about partioning the tank and creating a sump/refugium in the side if so.

[Rbishop]

What kind of filter do you already have, since you mentioned it? Skip the clam.

[williedee]

you will probably want to switch out the incandesent bulbs with some compact flouresents.

[Deathwish238]

What kind of filter do you already have, since you mentioned it? Skip the clam.

The filter is made by a company called Tetra and it is labeled as Model T1 on the bottom of the pump. My guess is that it's a Whisper Filter (http://www.tetra-fish.com/sites/tetrafish/catalog/productdetail.aspx?id=1276&cid=275), but I'm not 100% sure as it looks like the top cover of the filter is missing. There is a filter insert that was included and it does say Whisper on it as does the heater.



you will probably want to switch out the incandesent bulbs with some compact flouresents.

I figure I just need to get any fluorescent that will fit around 6000K. From what I read, I want to try and get around 2W/gallon, what's the most I should run on a 10g? The hood needs tubular bulbs it says but it looks like a standard light bulb screw in and says 25W bulb max.

[nh5]

skip the clam and the ghost shrimp just get 10red cherries

[SchizotypalVamp]

a)The neons, from what I hear, are too frenetic for a ten gallon. With Bettas it is hit and miss about how they will react to tankmates. I would suggest sticking with cherry shrimp, as ghost shrimp can be grabby and all shrimp benefit from a school. Better to have just one school

b)Anubias, crypts, water sprite(grows large), anacharis(grows large), vals, bacopa, hornwort(grows large) java fern and moss are some good lowlight plants

c)Most people will reccomend an Aquaclear 20, penguin 100, tom rapids mini canister or hydro sponge filter. You can't get away without a filter unless you have a walstad tank.

d)buy a light at home depot, others will help you there.

As others have said, skip the clam.

[Deathwish238]

skip the clam and the ghost shrimp just get 10red cherries

Well 10 red cherries = $50, 10 ghost = $12. Big difference in price, is it worth it? What if I were to do 5 of each? That way each has a school and cost goes down a bit.



a)The neons, from what I hear, are too frenetic for a ten gallon. With Bettas it is hit and miss about how they will react to tankmates. I would suggest sticking with cherry shrimp, as ghost shrimp can be grabby and all shrimp benefit from a school. Better to have just one school

So you think Neons need a bigger tank? What if I just had less of them? I don't care for Corys...they bore me...perhaps I need to see some in person. What are alternatives to tetras that are colorful?


What do you mean by "grabby"?




b)Anubias, crypts, water sprite(grows large), anacharis(grows large), vals, bacopa, hornwort(grows large) java fern and moss are some good lowlight plants

Cool, I will look more into those




c)Most people will reccomend an Aquaclear 20, penguin 100, tom rapids mini canister or hydro sponge filter. You can't get away without a filter unless you have a walstad tank.

d)buy a light at home depot, others will help you there.

As others have said, skip the clam.

Both the Aquaclear and Penguin look nice.

Any opinion of the Drs. Foster & Smith Bio System Power Filter & Oxy Surface Skimmer? (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3579+3608+16729&pcatid=16729)

[SchizotypalVamp]

skimmers are not an essential part of a FW tank, and usually don't do much. I've heard of ghost shrimp attacking fish when too hungry, and one ripping off an ADF's leg by accident. I would choose a different species than the neons. Seeing the cories in person really does make a difference, as it's their personalities and wiggle dance which is special. I just posted a list of schoolers on one of these other threads.

Here we go:
For schooling fish try celestial pearl danios, ember tetras, endler's livebearers, guppies(beware, both of these guys may overrun the tank), Boraras or microrasboras, White cloud mountain minnows, small rainbowfish, etc

There are more in the discussion thread in my sig.

[Deathwish238]

Okay cool....so I guess I should get the cherries instead of ghost shrimp.

I'll check out Corys at my LFS, see how I like them.

Out of your list of schooling fish, which are not good to keep with a Betta? I don't know which of those are fin nippers

Thanks for all the help everyone

[SchizotypalVamp]

not the rainbows or the white clouds.

[Deathwish238]

How hard is it to run a Walstad Tank? I know I'ld have to stock lightly...but what does that translate to? Only a Betta and maybe 3 Corys perhaps?

[SpockthePuffer]

I have a 10 gallon with a betta and 5 cories and some snails. I just recently go the cories and I love them. I don't think you will be disappointed if you get some. They are so funny and very active. I also like them because I know they won't nip at my betta and my betta doesn't seem to mind them as much as if he had fish swimming in the middle and top of the tank.

[-KT-]

skimmers are not an essential part of a FW tank, and usually don't do much. I've heard of ghost shrimp attacking fish when too hungry, and one ripping off an ADF's leg by accident.

That sounds so impossible, my largest ghost shrimps claws are too small to even grasp an ADFs leg let alone have the strength to pull one off. Not to mention they are terrible swimmers.

[jm1212]

8 neons will be fine in a 10 gallon is you skip the betta. chances are the betta will eat all of the srhimp anyway, so it would probably be better just to have neons and some shrimp.

[BoredAgain]

Well 10 red cherries = $50, 10 ghost = $12. Big difference in price, is it worth it?
Wow, you are getting ripped off! I can get 10 cherry shrimp for $5 to $10, and 10 ghost shrimp are $3.

[Deathwish238]

The prices I stated are from LiveAquaria.com


I have a 10 gallon with a betta and 5 cories and some snails. I just recently go the cories and I love them. I don't think you will be disappointed if you get some. They are so funny and very active. I also like them because I know they won't nip at my betta and my betta doesn't seem to mind them as much as if he had fish swimming in the middle and top of the tank.

Have any pics of your tank?




8 neons will be fine in a 10 gallon is you skip the betta. chances are the betta will eat all of the srhimp anyway, so it would probably be better just to have neons and some shrimp.

I think I really want a betta...they look so nice. Do all betta eat shrimp or just some?

[BoredAgain]

The prices I stated are from LiveAquaria.com
I would stick to buying locally or from people on here, save a fortune.

[Ozymandias]

well as i understand it some times it's hit and miss but mostly yes. i have heard of people planting the tank and letting it grow out then adding shrimp and when the population is relativity large thay add the betta and the betta may ignore the shrimp and if it doesn't there are plenty of hiding places by that point.

also ya i got a ROAK of like 15 shrimp for 15 shipped and another 15 for like 25 to 20 shipped

[SchizotypalVamp]

Really? I think it depends on the type of ghost and the age of the ADF. A ghost couldn't catch my nearly full grown ADFs, but a baby or juvenile, I could see. I've heard of them going after smaller fish multiple times. At first I didn't believe it.

[Deathwish238]

lol okay, I have to ask. What do ADF and ROAK stand for?

If I keep the betta well fed, would that lower the chances of it eating the shrimp? I planned to get the betta first, but if needed I suppose I could wait.


Waiting really is the hard part. I wanted to start setting this up this week but I'll be going out of town for 5 days and I don't think that'ld be good for the nitrogen cycle.

I may be wrong though, how bad would it be to put substrate in and feed the tank some food to let the nitrogen cycle start? I'm gonna be gone for 5 days so I wouldn't be able to change the water or anything along those lines.

[SchizotypalVamp]

if you're doing a fishless cycle then you just put ammonia/an ammonia source in. Keep in mind it takes much longer than 5 days for a tank to cycle if you're not putting in material from an established tank.

ROAK-Random Acts of Kindness. There is a thread on the forum where people give stuff away for just the shipping cost. But you should post up the next ROAK.

ADF-African Dwarf frog

[Deathwish238]

Yeah I know it takes longer than 5 days, but is it okay to not do anything for 5 days straight?

Thanks for clarifying the acronyms.

[Ozymandias]

well ROAK stands for Random Act of Kindness usually some one just giving something away and you just pay shipping.

ADF i'm actually wondering about my self

waiting really is the hardest part i'm going through it with reef tank right now. i'm so used ti hevaly planted tank where you put as many plants in as possible slowly add fish thus getting a silent cycle. what you suggest would work out just fine too it is simaller to a fishless cycle

Edit: never mind looks like it got answered already

[SchizotypalVamp]

You don't change the water during a fishless cycle, so, yes :)

[Deathwish238]

Awesome. Okay, so I'm gonna try to get it started up tonight then. No point in wasting time. Since the tank is used, how should I go about sterilizing everything? It's been sitting out for a few days now.


Also, should I bother getting a new filter or should I see how the one that came with it works out?

[Ozymandias]

i'd personally get a new filter (Aquaclear 20) this is just for the fact it allow allot of flexibility in the media you can use compared to a whisper it is also rated for a high tank and over filtration is good. though getting a new filter is not necessary if you are just letting it sit and run with out anything in it. but i think you will find as you add more to the tank that the whisper will clog up relatively fast.

also if you do end up getting shrimp many people suggest putting a pre-filter on the intake of your filter so fry or adult shrimp don't get sucked up. this can be some nylon stocking or a sponge cut to fit over the intake

[SchizotypalVamp]

You can use a bleach solution or potassium permangate.

[Deathwish238]

I'm scared of using bleach because I don't want any residue to be left over. would hot water do the trick?


i'd personally get a new filter (Aquaclear 20) this is just for the fact it allow allot of flexibility in the media you can use compared to a whisper it is also rated for a high tank and over filtration is good. though getting a new filter is not necessary if you are just letting it sit and run with out anything in it. but i think you will find as you add more to the tank that the whisper will clog up relatively fast.

also if you do end up getting shrimp many people suggest putting a pre-filter on the intake of your filter so fry or adult shrimp don't get sucked up. this can be some nylon stocking or a sponge cut to fit over the intake

Yeah I guess I'll probably get a new filter. This thing isn't exactly pretty either.

Is it possible to just put some sponge in the intake? Only problem I see is it being difficult to take out and clean...







Are all water conditioners pretty much the same or is there one recommended above others?

[Ozymandias]

well if it's glass should come off fter some really good rinsing. i'm also sure that boiling water would work to a certain extent to and i know some people use some different mixtures too i think one is a vinager mixture not sure though. if you put the sponge actually in the intake i feel 1 it would be hard to get out and 2 would clog up faster that way. just get a smallish sponge (i use the aquaclear ones) and cut a hole in it then stick it over the intake. it allows a grater area of water passage and thus gets clogged less. also should help with you media needing to be cleaned less frequently because the bigger particles don't get to it.

fpr water conditions i understand allot people like prime i believe it's made by seachem

[Deathwish238]

ahh okay, take a sponge and put it over the intake...that makes more sense.


Is it bad to use two different water conditioners? I want to start up my tank now and not wait! In the future I'll get Prime




How many plants should I expect to buy to have a good amount of foliage?

[Ozymandias]

well i see no reson but i rarly use any water agent like that (don't need it) so i cant tell you. i actually se no reson why you cant.

for plants i'd say as many as you can fit it all mater on what look your going for. also look on here for the plant you more likely to get better deals then your LFS. also check out TPT forum (http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/)and APC forum (http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/index.php) thay have a swap & shop section to and you can usually find a more divers selection of plants for cheap and thay also have some great advice and people to boot.

[Deathwish238]

Why don't you need water agents?


I'll check out those forums

[Ozymandias]

my waters good like that seriously just never needed one and saw no adverse affect on live stock and plants it does help that i'm on well water though

[SchizotypalVamp]

I have mixed dechlorinators with no adverse effects, but it's not good to do. The benefits of it are that it also removes heavy metals.

[Ozymandias]

and once again probably another reason i should be using it but don't ee. heavy mettles is probably the only thing i would have to worry about with well water

[Deathwish238]

I made a trip to Walmart tonight, looking at the horrible condition they keep many of their fish in makes me quite sad...

But I realized I may want an aquatic frog. Do they need more space than a 10g?

[Lupin]

But I realized I may want an aquatic frog. Do they need more space than a 10g?
What species are they? If ADF, I'd try one per 2.5g.

[Deathwish238]

I'm not sure, they didn't have a tag. They were the size of maybe 1.5 quarters and all beige.

[Deathwish238]

What are the dimensions of a typical 10g tank? I think mine may be a little bigger...

Or well how do you relate cubic feet to gallons?

[GothiK8DragoN]

10" x 20" x 12"

BTW: ADF's are a thrill to have and care for in my opinion.

[Carla G]

I see no reason why neons cannot be kept with a betta in a 10 gallon tank. Other possibilities are Ember tetras or Cherry barbs (NOT Rosy barbs). And the cories, of course. Gotta love the cories.

[Carla G]

Why would you not keep rainbows or White Clouds with a betta?

[SchizotypalVamp]

The white clouds like it cooler than the betta. Rainbows with long fins will probably have no fins after living with the betta.

I love ADFs. If your betta is peaceful then I would get one, but if it feels the need to establish territory don't get any, because ADFs are not respectful. When I had a Betta with ADFs it was constantly stressing because the ADFs would not leave its territory alone. Also, you have to make sure the betta doesn't get the ADF's food by handfeeding or feeding with a turkey baster.